Women’s Aid considers employing self-declared transwomen [i.e. men] in women's shelters

[cromeyellow0]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/womens-refuges-may-get-transgender-staff-3txhcr8mb

The review of women’s refuges, which is not dependent on any government reform, was agreed last week by the board of the charity Women’s Aid, a federation that oversees more than 300 shelters.

Mary Mason, the board’s interim co-chairwoman, said: “We have agreed to start a review of our whole transgender policy, including the possibility of employment for self-declared transgender women without a gender recognition certificate.”

Describing it as “an extraordinarily difficult discussion,” Mason said the review, by Women’s Aid’s director of services, Nicki Norman, would take three to four months. Another board member, Sarah Forster, confirmed the move.

Where did the impetus come from? It shows yet another institution "getting ahead of the law", as a Labour MP would phrase it.

Yes that would be the same India Willoughby backing off shouting 'I am a REAL woman' repeatedly at wide eyed, startled women

Yes a GRC means very little in terms of refuges if a TIM looks like Danielle Muscato.

Coming at this from a trans perspective for a minute this is where the idea that allowing anyone to legally become the opposite sex falls down. It's created a division between those that reasonably pass and those that don't. I think some of the direction current trans ideology has taken is precisely because the majority don't pass, GRC or not, and they know it. So they have to find ways to force people to validate them. I imagine many non passing TIMs harbour a lot of resentment for those few that blend in more easily.

In that tweet thread they're also really angry that the Gilligan story was on the front page. Because women's concerns are insignificant, right?

'I am actually laughing out loud at this because I can't imagine many scenarios more ludicrous than women relying on the likes of these two to be the voice of reason in protecting our rights!!'

I know!!! The world had officially gone mad. Never EVER thought those two would be the voices of sanity

Assigned, my thoughts exactly. Visions of India screaming at terrified, traumatised women that 'I AM A REAL WOMAN'. Coz it's all about India, you see

I think some of the direction current trans ideology has taken is precisely because the majority don't pass, GRC or not, and they know it. So they have to find ways to force people to validate them. I imagine many non passing TIMs harbour a lot of resentment for those few that blend in more easily.

YY, that's exactly it.

If this happens then surely the next step for self declared trans women is to demand assess to positions where they can counsel young girls who have been victims of trauma and abuse.

According to their ‘logic’ it would be discriminatory to not allow them to?

That's exactly what Nixon was after when suing Vancouver Rape Relief www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/learn/resources/vancouver-rape-relief-society-v-nixon-2005-bcca-601-summary-decision

I don't watch CBB, or BB generally, and have absolutely no idea who this India person is.

But if I were to give one piece of advice to TIMs who want to be accepted, seen, regarded, treated as women (although they don't really want to be treated like women, surely!) it would be this.

Stop behaving like men.

Stop shouting at women.
Stop intimidating women.
Stop harrassing women.
Stop bullying women.
Stop silencing women through fear.
Stop abusing women.

Read and listen to what we say about what we don't like about men.
Understand why we don't want men, any men, in our safe, private spaces.
Understand the threat that biological men can pose to women.
Understand that we don't know which of these men will pose this threat and which will not.
Understand that we assume that men who do shout, harrass, bully, scream at us are the ones who wish to cause us harm. Because shouting, harrassing, bullying and screaming at us is causing us harm.

Being a woman is not:

Wearing make up
Wearing dresses
Presenting a highly sexualised feminine image for the pleasure of men
Having fabulous hair
The sway of your hips as you walk
Being viewed approvingly/acceptingly by men
Being 'fluffy'
Owning a handbag dog with a diamante collar
Having a shoe collection to rival Imelda Marcos'
About pouting selfies

Being a woman is also not about being nice to absolutely everyone, even when you are suspicious of their intentions and motivations.

'Looking like' a woman isn't enough. If you want us to believe, or at least respect you enough as a person to pretend, that you are also women, then you need to behave less like men.

And obviously, the MRA/TRAs, who are alsoTIMs, have no desire to 'pass'. They want women to know that they are really men because that's not about acceptance, that's about fear and intimidation.

Spot on NaturalWoman

And obviously, the MRA/TRAs, who are alsoTIMs, have no desire to 'pass'. They want women to know that they are really men because that's not about acceptance, that's about fear and intimidation.

Yes very good point. It seems a lot like a postmodern version of raping and pillaging. History repeats itself but it's a mistake to think it always comes in exactly the same guise.

If this happens then surely the next step for self declared trans women is to demand assess to positions where they can counsel young girls who have been victims of trauma and abuse.

YY. This is I think what some of these men want. This is why we should be allowed to question their motives.

History repeats itself but it's a mistake to think it always comes in exactly the same guise.

Yes. It's nothing that other women before us haven't seen before.

I just find it ironic that all this is going on alongside celebrating 100 years of the suffragette movement.

Just all those women who sacrificed so much to give us rights that so many of us are gift wrapping up to hand back to the most aggressive of men.

I know from experience that abusive men like to get victims to talk about their abuse.

The insistence on being in a space where women are vulnerable and they know they're not welcome shows exactly why we don't want them there. A decent person would back off at the first suggestion that their presence wouldn't be helpful, if helping people was the goal. It isn't, obviously.

I can't imagine a more perfect job for a predator than counsellor/residential coordinator at a rape crisis org or a refuge. The most vulnerable set of women and girls you could find, served up on a plate by people who've already shown that they don't have the backbone to stop you preying on those women/girls.

Funny how few of this wave of TRAs want to be delivery drivers, florists, accountants, management consultants, professors of physics, shop assistants.

They want to be rape counsellors, nurses, bra fitters. Or "trans journalists" in the media where the only story you ever have to cover is telling women to STFU.

I suspect that one of the reasons that this nonsense has spread so far online is because most of these people do not have jobs at all, don't have much of a real social life, and so spend 16 hours a day online reading and writing utter guff. Most ordinary people just don't have time for that.

It makes me laugh when trans rights are compared to gay rights.

Gay rights: I want the right to be able to have sex with whoever I want without being criminalised, I want the right to marry whoever I want, I want the right to have the same job opportunities as others and not be discriminated against just because I am attracted to people of the same sex, I want access to the same health care as everyone else and be treated the same as others. None of this impacts on anyone else, I just want the same human rights as everyone else in the eyes of the law.

Trans rights: I want the right to use which ever loo or changing room I want depending on how I identify that day, I want the right to choose to go to a female prison even if I am a sex offender with a working penis, I the right want to take roles that were specifically earmarked for women for various reasons, I want the right to tell women that they cannot talk about reproductive issues because that doesn't centre me, I want the right to work in a rape crisis centre with women who have been assaulted by penises just like my own. I am aware that all of these things may have a negative impact on women and the rights that they have fought for for so long, but I don't care.

I can't imagine a more perfect job for a predator than counsellor/residential coordinator at a rape crisis org or a refuge. The most vulnerable set of women and girls you could find, served up on a plate by people who've already shown that they don't have the backbone to stop you preying on those women/girls.

Yet as a society we know this. We know it from all the men who have gone to great lengths to seek out victims under the guise of being pillars of the community. It's appalling how much common sense has seemingly gone out of the window around this one subject.

It's sexy cosplaying, basically. Which, hey, if that's what you want then there's a place just for you! It's called ComicCon, so how about buggering off over there and leaving women alone?

That would be the most generous interpretation. The less generous one is that women's violated responses are vital to the enjoyment for many/most of these people.

abusive men like to get victims to talk about their abuse

Yes

And a survivor of abuse, pre-gaslit and with her boundaries all over the place, is in a very vulnerable position with respect to a 'therapist' using the therapeutic relationship to groom her for further sexual abuse. It's not talked about much but it happens.

I know it's already been mentioned, but in a way I'm glad this has been highlighted. If nothing else to move on from toilets and m&s changing rooms. The arguments for those seem to rely on the need for sex segregation at all. That's probably why TRA keep talking about them.

But in situations where sex segregation is obviously needed, the debate changes. The focus does move from the rights of MIT to those of women. It is so difficult for the likes of India w and Kellie m, who lets face it don't pass, to insist that they are more vulnerable than these women. And questions why they need to be in these spaces at all.

Why would (presumably government) funding be pulled from something that provides a service and relies on exemptions specifically given in the Equalities Act? Is it that they have to (regularly?) prove that the exemption is validly applied?

This takes the biscuit. How to we make our collective voices heard with the folks at WA?