Women’s Aid considers employing self-declared transwomen [i.e. men] in women's shelters

[cromeyellow0]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/womens-refuges-may-get-transgender-staff-3txhcr8mb

The review of women’s refuges, which is not dependent on any government reform, was agreed last week by the board of the charity Women’s Aid, a federation that oversees more than 300 shelters.

Mary Mason, the board’s interim co-chairwoman, said: “We have agreed to start a review of our whole transgender policy, including the possibility of employment for self-declared transgender women without a gender recognition certificate.”

Describing it as “an extraordinarily difficult discussion,” Mason said the review, by Women’s Aid’s director of services, Nicki Norman, would take three to four months. Another board member, Sarah Forster, confirmed the move.

Where did the impetus come from? It shows yet another institution "getting ahead of the law", as a Labour MP would phrase it.

And where the actual F*ck are the non dysphoric transsexuals? I get that they are keeping their heads down and avoiding villification just like women have been, but FFS if they identify WITH us (not AS us) then they really really need to speak up now. Their entire movement is infested with gender tourists, posh kids playing at oppression and fetishist homophobic MRAs.

Whilst I have sympathy, I am rapidly losing sympathy for their inaction. Why is it just us holding the line (with a handful of notable exceptions, Miranda et al)????

Sorry that should say NON AGP TRANSSEXUALS. Correction.

GirlScout72 I said similar somewhere here yesterday. I have trans friends myself and I've had trenchant conversations with them about this. Women are in an existential fight. We don't have the time, the capacity or the resources to work for anyone but ourselves in this crisis. And if this silent majority of sensible trans don't want the extremists speaking for them, they are going to have to organise and speak out in larger numbers than the tiny handfuls currently doing so. I realise it's scary - but let's face it, not as scary as it is for women, who are being doxxed, reported to employers, threatened, etc.

Current ‘case by case’ policy seems sensible to me.
I’m sure there are transwomen in abusive relationships who need refuge and it’s already happening anyway.

However this new policy review appears to be driven by a political aim to allow transwomen to enter women’s refuges ‘no questions asked.’ And you wonder what the motivation is for this.

So it’s up to WA to spend significant time and resources on managing this situation. I suspect women will not be the winners. I don’t envy WA having to negotiate this at all.

Isn't part of the issue that non AGP, dysphoric transsexuals (as they were once known) are such a small group that even if each one spoke up it would be a drop in the ocean?

I'm sure I read somewhere that prior to transgender becoming a thing referrals to the (one?) UK clinic for dysphoria were about 90 per year. Not all those 90 presumably would go on to transition.

I don't think the law currently allows what they are proposing (not that this has stopped many, many organisations who are merrily ignoring their legal duties...).

The law allows exemptions, in limited circumstances, for organisations to employ only women for a particular role where it is a general occupational requirement. This can include TIMs who have legally changed their sex. As far as I am aware, there is no provision in law to restrict a role to women only 'plus a few men that we have decided to let apply'. Either the role is for women only (including TIMs with a GRC) or it is open to all men.

LangCleg

Totally agree. I know there are a few speaking out, but from reading the Janice Turner article yesterday, sounds like she's getting a lot of letters from 'honorable' trans people, they need to speak up!

I RESENT the enormous energy this takes from women, from the arguments with TRAs who just simply expect it, to the 'what about the menz' derails whenever women try to articulate our reality to the stupid fluffy headed man pleasing lib fems, we are exhausting ourselves here trying to hold back the tide, and we are on our own.
Tranwomen are MEN. To all intents and purposes this is a men's issue, it's bugger all to do with women. Where the hell are the men as well? Men I talk to privately get it pretty quickly, and yet ... absolutely SOD ALL.

Going for a soak in the bath to quietly fume.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/equality-act-guidance-for-charities/equality-act-guidance-for-charities

• it is not a legal duty but is unclear.

From my understanding trustees of charities can be held personally accountable for damages claims etc so they are very unlikely to want to take any chances.

There is also no duty to carry out an Equality Impact Assessment although it would be good practice. Womens Aid need to be asked if they are carrying one out and then asked what template/ model they are using.

The best hope of challenging all this madness is through the legal system where it can be scrutinised in a much more forensic way.

I'm assuming that transmen/self id transmen are allowed into women's refuges still on account of the fact that they are still biologically women and a man raping a woman is a man raping a woman regardless of the clothes she is wearing or the name she is using?

Because if we recognise a transman is a woman for the purposes of women's refuges etc, then we should recognise that transwomen are men for the same purposes.

I agree girlscout. If the old fashioned transexuals are just as horrified at these developments as claimed, they need step up and do something about it. The fact that they are not, shows to me that there is precious few of them or that they are happy with the activism.

I've lost any sympathy I had, as they have shown that nothing is enough, they have to keep pushing those boundaries. And as the trans agenda gets pushed and pushed, more women will think like me.

If this new wave of transwoman wants recognition/safe spaces, then they can campaign, organise and create their own and stop piggybacking on those of women.

I currently have faith that WA are just having to review this and be able to come back reasonably and in a way in which they won't receive massive transphobic accusations.

Everything about WA in the past has been brave and about women first, but this is such a hot potato that they have to get their stance clear.

My only concern is WA have recently lost polly neate and I would have trusted her judgement on this emphatically but I don't know anything about the new CEO and whether she has drunk the koolaid and worse, has come in new and "wants to make her mark"

OvaHere

True, but that's who the general public think we are talking about when we discuss this issue, it's why they think we are bigots. When transsexuals speak up in support of women, it's incredibly powerful. Miranda's 'Transgender Ideology Does Not Support Women' piece has been read over a MILLION times. Because he IS trans. When trans people say 'these people are fetishists, these people are MRAs' it is extremely helpful as it really helps people understand. There doesn't need to be lots of them, but there doesn't need to be for them to organise a pretty powerful campaign.

The other issue is newspaper style guides and IPSO guidance on this when discussing it in the media, trans orgs have been very clever lobbying the media on language, when there is absolutely NO REASON why they should be in charge of the terms of this debate, the law being what it is. So they can say 'trans identified males' is offensive, don't use it, and actually they are not correct, and we have just as much right to say 'transwoman' is offensive because they are not women, women are adult human females not a costume, or whatever.

I think we really do need to get better at defining the terms of this discussion, it's our language too.

I don't think there is anything noble in it. It is probably just sickening idiocy & egotism and a misplaced desire to seem cool and 'with it' to the younger pomo bullshit generation. Just FUCK THEM.

If the old fashioned transexuals are just as horrified at these developments as claimed, they need step up and do something about it. The fact that they are not, shows to me that there is precious few of them or that they are happy with the activism

Tbh, they aren't treated any differently to women by the TRAs and are smaller in number than women in general, who amount to approximately 50% of the population. I'm not surprised that they are not standing up against this.

We, and they, need to stand together but, as women are not allowed/finding it very difficult to organise themselves to move against it, there is not much chance of us getting them on board either.

This is just awful. It’s announcements like these that really make me fear for the safety of women. We are being erased. But please, ladies, don’t let this fear stop you. More of us are being awakened to this every day. We must keep fighting.

Oh come on, we are told on one hand that the vast majority of TIM are lovely and horrified about TRA. Yet they make up so a small proportion of the trans population to be voiceless?

I think we really do need to get better at defining the terms of this discussion, it's our language too.

Yes absolutely. I wonder if fairplayforwomen/A Woman's Place could be utilised as a lobby group for style guides and IPSO guidance? I would definitely donate to that.

Does anyone know if the A Woman's Place has charitable status or might move in that direction because I think many of us would consider direct debit support as with other charities?

Looking at how well the crowdfunder has done the support is there but I would really like something that is cross party and politically neutral in that sense.

The reverend who spoke in favour on BBC, Sally Hitchiner (note unusual spelling) is apparently partnered with a woman. She founded Diverse Church, for LBGT Anglicans.

Oh come on, we are told on one hand that the vast majority of TIM are lovely and horrified about TRA

Are you talking about TIMs or are you talking about old skool transsexuals who have transitioned and hold GRCs?

Because it's a little bit like asking why half a dozen Shih Tzus won't take on a pack of wolves. After all, they're all canines.

A transexual is a TIM. They are all males who identify as trans. What's the difference?

I imagine Sally Hitchiner couldn't be openly gender critical if she wanted to be.
Her position might dictate that she has to appear open and welcoming to all.
I daren't post anything peak trans in my FB page as it may jeopardise my job. I can talk trans here, with people I know are gender critical, on Twitter, but in RL where transwomen are women is taking hole, I would be too scared.

Read this and I'm fuming. I'm new to a feminist thread, so excuse me.
Has anyone started a petition yet or is it too early?
I've been going through the threads this morning and shocked. I admit , I've not really ever read them.

Same here GetDownDog

Refuge funding has a lot to do with this. Budgets will be decimated by the housing benefit changes. Add to that refuges delivering commissioned services for local/ health authorities. To retain that funding they have to deliver services as laid down to them, not as they might want. I know of a refuge that stands to have to close down half its spaces because of this. Because refuges aren’t independently funded they are very vulnerable to the agendas of others.
Having said that my sister and I are active enthusiastic fundraisers for our local refuge, she’s raised thousands, and neither of us would be happy to continue if they adopted self ID.