I've reached trans peak

[GrooovyLass]

I have always been supportive of people living their lives how they need to. I have a lovely colleague who is a transwoman and DD's best and most brilliant teacher at school was a transman.

I don't think I've changed my opinion that people with actual gender dysmorphia should be helped to transition. I also think that people should be able to wear what they want and look like what they want.

I've scanned a few threads in this section and found myself agreeing more and more with the comments about "self identifying" but the Rose McGowan clip has definitely made me reach peak trans. These people aren't women and they're not even transwomen, they're men in dresses. I have nothing against a man wearing a dress but a man wearing a dress, trying to look like a particular type of stereotypical woman and screaming that he's a woman is just a man screaming at a woman.

They dress like their idea of a woman, they say that they are women but the male privilege to be heard the loudest and the longest belies what they're saying.

Thanks for reading if you have. I just wanted to share my enlightenment without hijacking anyone else's thread (because I'm a woman so I'm polite!) but I've a feeling that the paragraphs I've written in will disappear when I post.

At this point transphobic seems to be the current euphemism for uppity and disobedient women who refuse to submit to male dominance.

Well precisely - barring sitting around chanting "transwomen are women" there's nothing a woman can do to avoid being called a transphobe.

Mention your female biology? Transphobe.

Want to talk about your experience of rape/sexual assault? Transphobe.

Ask questions? Transphobe.

Sit in silence? Transphobe.

In fact, given Rose McGowan's recent experience (she actually referred to the man attacking her as "sister") even chanting "transwomen are women" will not protect you from being called transphobe.

These are simply men who hate women, and transphobe is this century's "burn the witch."

Thanj you for such a warm welcome
@ohfortuna That's a good point actually. I will ask him next time it comes up.

I mentioned the pussy hat incident to him but he didn't seem interested or get the significance.

A while ago he was contributing to an event (based in US) that had decided to raise money for a Trans Teens charity and I got a bit uppity saying that's great but do the group also raise money for women's charities such as planned Parenthood too? The group is predominantly male and it struck me that although very kind (and yes, those suffering from discrimination, identify crisis, dysmorphia (forgive the appropriate wording) should definitely have help and assistance) it just felt like blokes helping blokes who had all the privilege of being male and now have loads of money towards what they want. But did the group ever do the same for women's charities? Would it even cross their minds? No, because it's men helping men.

But then even writing that I feel awful because maybe it would help someone. I dunno I'm not very eloquent with all this. I feel as if my eyes have opened but I'm still a bit dazed. My left wing woolly leanings are getting all in a tizz!

Fluffy, this is my question for those like your H.
Can you mandate belief?
Can you codify into law the idea that some people can mind over matter themselves out of material reality and into the opposite sex and must be treated accordingly?
It is like transubstantiation. A belief that no one actually believes.
Will you allow people to drug and mutilate children based on this belief that no one believes?

Fluffy re. your left wing woolly leanings getting all in a tizz, I think we all feel this way about this issue. But try turning it round - why is it so many women who have impeccable credentials for supporting the underprivileged, the voiceless, the powerless, fighting racism, fighting transphobia - how come we are all gradually, one by one, finding ourselves saying "just a moment... this is getting crazy here, and this isn't genuine activism on behalf of people who need support, this is something else... I'm beginning to catch the unmistakable whiff of gaslighting here...?

Transactivism is the cuckoo in the tolerant, supportive lefty-liberal nest. And it is a greedy cuckoo which will consume absolutely everything in its path. Women in prisons, women in DV/rape shelters/ women's sports/ lesbian's spaces/ teenage girls' locker rooms.

Spot on hairy.

I think you should suggest it, Schroedinger

The thing I don't get is this. My son's friend is pansexual. In my position as oh so very old and in my day it was LGBT and that was all, I asked him what pan meant. For her, he said, it is truly and genuinely the person she is attracted to. So man, woman, TIF or TIM; whether the outside is congruous, or not, with the inside, it makes no difference to her.

So, in the ever expanding LGBTQ+, those who don't care if their 'boyfriend' has a vagina or their 'girlfriend' has a penis are already represented and identified. So how can there be a genuine issue with those straight women who do want a dick and those lesbians who don't?

I still maintain that the only reason women are shut down with 'transphobe' so easily is because the trans narrative just doesn't stand up to any true scrutiny.

If it helps, fluffy, those left wing woolly leanings can survive this intact. You are still an ally to the vulnerable and underprivileged. You're an ally to:

• gender non conforming boys - to be allowed to be boys who like sparkle and dressing up

• gender non conforming young girls -to be allowed to be girls who like rough and tumble and science

• young lesbians who are being bullied into thinking that they ought to be attracted to people with penises or they're bigots

• young women who have been sexually abused and see transitioning as an escape to that sexual objectification

• autistic young people who are vulnerable to the suggestion that they can change sex and that this will help them feel at ease in the world

• young people with complex mental health issues who need your help and support, not to be bludgeoned with drugs and surgery.

• women who don't want to share their private spaces, their sports, their opportunities and their political movements with men who think that being a woman is an idea in a man's head.

You can (and should?!) be an ally to all of these groups, who are at risk of being crushed by the trans juggernaut, and still be a good person. You don't have to be an ally to aggressive males who despise women. This is the thought process I went through, too - I want to be someone who does good in the world, and i struggled with my "transphobia", until I looked at it like this.

Kate McKinnon was declared transphobic because she said she had never touched a penis.

Sandi Toksvig of the very pro-trans Women's Equality Party joked with Susan Calman on QI about penises "not feeling good in the mouth". Are they transphobic?

Hi fluffy!

I found the 'women not allowed to talk about menstruation, wombs, pussies, etc' all the things that actually identify what sex a woman is, was my peak trans moment.
Then the Danielle what's her face, and children being taught that girls play with tutus and tiaras, so everyone who likes tiaras is a girl, trucks is a boy. Cotton ceiling. Rapists in women's prisons, TIMs in women's refuges.....

It never stops. Each time you think it can't get any wilder, something even more ridiculous happens.

I peaked thanks to MN, fortunately am now retired so no fears about being doxxed or worries for my job. I'm out as a GC feminist on twitter and so decided I'd be happy to be out on here too.

Every day there seems to be something else that is so mind boggling that I can only hope it leads to peak trans for another whole group of women and men.

It's so clear that the TRAs are MRAs to anyone who's willing to look at the evidence - but I think you need to have that "but the emperor's not wearing any clothes" moment first.

My lefty DH worried he would become like the religious B&B owners that would not allow gay men to stay. Then I pointed out that it was the other way around. The T/MRA are the B&B owners, they are the ones ramming the dogma down other people's throats. DH fully gets it now.

@SophoclesTheFox thank you! That list makes me feel better.
I find it hard to acknowledge that I might be perceived as having the same views as those that I fundamentally disagree with. It's hard when the conversation around this is shut down so quickly and the transphobia label is thrown around so freely.

I remember when I did wonder what all the "hysteria" was about.
I thought is a bloke really going to go to all the trouble / trauma of having his Penis inverted, boob job and name changes just so he can access women to commit these hypothetical assaults on women in women's spaces? I was like get a grip, feminists.
Then I was told hardly any have the reassignment surgery, many are fetishists and cross dressers, found out about AGP, and bit by bit I realised transwomen were not all poor vulnerable spirits who needed us to care for them... and started to see barefaced upfront misogyny.
Reading about AGP made me peak.

Each new expose that happens definitely brings a new wave of peak transers!

Definitely @HairyBallTheorem it's having read all the sensible chat on here that's made me realise. I'm ashamed at how is written off these threads as 'oh look, another transphobic outburst'. I obviously didn't say anything but I'd like to offer my apologies for having thought that about you all.

Sophocles you've mentioned something that really resonates with me. I'm on a fb group for women with aspergers and the number of transwomen in the group is far out of proportion. When you are autistic it's hard to try to figure out where you fit in and I can understand how zoom vulnerable person like that can be drawn in to becoming trans.

Added to which Groovy navigating complex social systems is incredibly hard for people with aspergers, and they often fall back on sets of rules to help them cope with situations neurotypical people navigate with relative ease. And socially constructed gender rules are some of the most complex, and the most prone to "exceptions" (in that none of us fit into our pink and blue boxes) so must be a complete head-fuck for people with aspergers. Small wonder that a woman with aspergers thinks "but I don't match any of the behaviours in the 'woman' set of rules, but I do match a fair few in the 'man' set of rules, and these people online are telling me I can change my gender... therefore I must really be a man on the inside."

So only a certain type of lesbian.

Yes. A lesbian with XX chromosomes and a vagina. TIMs don't want to sleep with other TIMs because they have penises. But they still expect lesbians to sleep with them and, if they don't, they clutch their pearls and shriek "transphobia!".

When Feminists stood against porn the lefty liberal d00dz accused us of being just like the God botherers of the extreme right.
No surprise when Feminists stand against the trans advocates the same accusation is leveled at us.
In reality it is the trans advocates who prioritize belief over material reality and insist on rigidly enforced sex roles.

Nearly 20 years ago I was kicked out of the women toilets in a Brighton pub by a TIM.

It's taken me a long time to peak trans from there.

Thanks Fluffy - also been there, done that. I remember as a grad student when the Rachel Padman thing blew up at Newnham (transwoman given fellowship in STEM subject in Cambridge women's college) thinking "Germaine Greer's being a meanie about this, what does it matter if Padman sincerely believes she's a woman and has gone to all the trouble of having surgery." I thought this despite being in a STEM subject myself, knowing that only about 10% of undergrads in that subject were women, having experienced the sexism of the university admissions process at the time, having had to hack my way through a veritable jungle of sexism in school, I'd been to an all-women college as an undergrad and knew how brilliantly supportive women only spaces were... and despite this, I still didn't see that women only fellowships being for women only was important and that bending the rules was the same as having no rules at all

Getting on for 30 years later, I'd just like to say "Germaine, you were right. You were so right. And I am sorry the young naive me didn't get it."

Why did they kick you out Simon ?

When Feminists stood against porn the lefty liberal d00dz accused us of being just like the God botherers of the extreme right.

Yes, they do. And prudes. And fat and ugly.

Interestingly, and this always does fascinate me - women who were suffragettes (ie decades before the sexual revolution - at a time when being seen as having the opinions of the 'Church' would have been seen as virtuous.) were frequently called 'whores.'

"A hyena in petticoats" was another famously coined phrase for women fighting for voting rights.

They'll just hit us with whatever they think will shame us - and the nature of the attacks move with the times.

They kicked me out because I was a woman and had no right to be in there.

They'll just hit us with whatever they think will shame us - and the nature of the attacks move with the times.

Yeah this is very true. Transphobe is just this generation's slur.

How can that be, Simon?