Oh dear Harriet Harman

[BlindYeo]

I think I just heard Harriet Harman on the World at One saying she agrees with JC on self-identification onto AWS. FFS. Did anyone else catch it?

Yep, I heard it and was disappointed that it was even raised without a companion question about the fact that self-ID for AWS (for Parliamentary elections) would appear to be shaky legally. This is this whole point of this being an issue at the moment.

I wasn't surprised that HH is a firm believer. It wouldn't surprise me if she knows nothing of the issues except what she's been told by "the correct" side.

He is an arse, remember her past support of the information network in the 70s ?!

I can only take solace that the question was asked, which two weeks ago might have been considered so transphobic that it couldn't have been.

Regarding the Jennifer James legal challenge, is that now on hold until the proposed Labour statement in March?

In some ways I wish I could go back to thinking that JC and HH and all are right that self-ID is a good idea, that it has no unintended outcomes, that women and girls and old-school transwomen are going to be at no greater risk.

Maybe I should go and meet a signed-up Self-ID Is Great MP and see if I'm convinced.

Maybe they have thought it all through and will be putting in firm, useful safeguards throughout that uphold safety and dignity and fairness and equality.

I wish.

Yes, I was coming on to say does she not have form for supporting appalling ideas in the name of progress? Get it out on twitter.

'I think I just heard Harriet Harman on the World at One saying she agrees with JC on self-identification onto AWS'

PLEASE be kidding. Jesus, I am so sick of this. Is there no politician apart from David Davies (not the Brexit muppet) who is willing to stand up on the side of science and fact and reason and right? FFS

Dodo, I don't think it has been considered, sadly. Janice Turner did an interview with Maria Miller about the implications, and MM got so hacked off that she didn't know how to respond to the questions that she called it a stitch up and stormed out. If I'm.remembering correctly.

TBH I don't think the tories have any interest whatsoever in pushing this one through. The ones who are going to push for it are labour, they need to be being written to daily at this point.

I cna't square it with this published yesterday:
HH on the importance of AWS

Harriet Harman should have been asked as a follow-up: So if you follow the self-ID argument to its logical conclusion, you would be happy with an All Women shortlist which comprised all people with penises and none with vaginas?

She didn’t just say it, she was very firm about it. I give up, honestly. I reckon a good 70% on twitter (not representative of the population I’ll agree) believe it.

Don't give up Natural, please. Take a break, charge your batteries and come back. We need you. In the meantime, other women will keep fighting.

I understand how you feel. I need to take a break from it periodically. I have never seen anything like it in my life and I have always been a political junkie.

I just wonder how it's all going to play out in reality. I worry that it will force a huge Trump like backlash towards the authoritarian right at some point if people feel forced to play along with no real counter voice or say in legislation.

I saw this linked earlier on another site.

www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/americans-less-comfortable-lgbt-people-now-172719953.html

It's US based and has nearly 6000 comments. Many of them sadly are outright homophobic but a large amount, based on the 100 or so I read are about trans ideology and the concerns for women and children. I fear that the L & G are really going to suffer as part of any backlash as seems to be playing out in the US.

The thing is, given the way voting has gone in the past few years, we all know now that the unthinkable CAN and WILL happen. It's hard not to give up and go build a bunker.

I just want to cry.

I'm still clinging on but I'm going to have to leave Labour over this, aren't I?

Need to listen back, but I thought HH said something along the lines of if people thought candidates were taking the piss being on AWS, then nobody would vote for them

The only thing that can change the direction for this issue is either LGB cut themselves loose from the TA or for something to go horribly wrong in the public eye connected to self ID or transitioning.
I’ve only been on twitter for two weeks. It’s been an eye-opener!

Maybe HH could come on for a MN webchat and explain why she agrees with JC on this since I doubt that JC will do a webchat.

My recollection hipsterfun is that HH was saying that self-ID on AWS couldn't be wrong because if a candidate was not good then they wouldn't be voted for. More a case of "everything is fine because it's self-correcting".

Hipster I kind of agree with her that people will probably not vote for anyone that looks like they are taking the piss —except not sure if Miss Madigan throws that argument out of the window— but no one in government is going to be at physical risk with a self ID’d individual anyway.

Strike out fail

I wonder how many PIE supporting lefties are now on the trans band wagon.

But even if the public don't vote in a self id trans person that's still at least one woman who didn't get a look in at all as part of AWS and it's likely that the winning candidate against a TIM would be a male. Women lose out which ever way you look at it.

Sorry, I meant voted for in the sense of them being selected in the CLP. Because as we know there's never any undue influence in CLPs.