Oh dear Harriet Harman

[BlindYeo]

I think I just heard Harriet Harman on the World at One saying she agrees with JC on self-identification onto AWS. FFS. Did anyone else catch it?

Doesn't surprise me. She's my MP and I emailed my concerns about self ID etc a couple of months ago. Never heard a word back. Why are they all so scared about this?

Some of us have long memories when it comes to HH and her support for dodgy causes.

Although I am totally despairing at the sheer cowardice of women MPs who I know will in reality understand about the dangers of self ID and the dangers of medical experimentation on children, I also know that If they dared to stand up against this their careers would be over.
When I see the level of vitriol casually hurled at feminists (thinking of that charmer Natasha Devon writing in the TES or the misogynist lefty males twatterers), not to mention the attacks on labour party women, I sort of understand why they are keeping quiet. The male far left are gunning for them at the moment and they probably reckon that if they stay 'inside the tent ' at the moment, they may be able to mediate at a later stage. Of course, it's cowardly but I'm not actually sure what option they have - they would be obliterated. As the Labour party are hauling over the coals CLP women members, imagine what they'd do to any MPs who stand up and speak?
I'm really not defending them - just trying to understand why people who understand safeguarding, have children, deal with teenagers etc and presumably understand the difference between beliefs and scientific facts are being so careless with children and women's safety..... And fear of the activists is the only explanation I can think of.

I still feel like I am in the midst of some awful TV series about a future dystopia where women are forced to say that men are women or else they are punished. I find it hard to countenance that this is all really happening. It's quite terrifying. I am afraid of how this will end, when the Liam Madigans of this world are in twenty years running the country and rooting out all the wrongthinkers.

I think that what HH said was that if someone was putting themselves forward as male to female transgender without actually being one (so just taking advantage to become an MP) the selection committee would not be taken in and would not select them.

The ship has sailed for LGB leaving T. If all the L’s left, there’d still be all the New-Ls waiting to take their place - that’d include TIMs and their girlfriends who are having a het relationship whilst telling themselves they’re L.

We’ve lost. Even if we hold back the tide for ten minutes, we’ve still lost.

Do any of you know where feminists like Jess Philips, Stella Creasy and Caitlin Moran stand on this issue ? I think alot of influential women are keeping well under the radar.

Stella Creasy is fully on board the Trans Train, despite massive confusion over what is sex and what is gender.

Jess Phillips has kept her cards reasonably close. Could go either way.

Caitlin Moran, no idea.

First time in my life I've considered leaving. (Labour party)

It's forcing me to question myself.

The worst that can happen to an MP who speaks out is they can have the whip taken away from them. They would remain in parliament until the next election. Personally I feel that if you are not prepared to speak out on legislation that is being taken through Parliament that is very seriously detrimental to society, particularly when based on lunacy, you should not be an MP at all. I am pretty sure that if an MP I would speak out on this and on Brexit, if nothing else. Caring about their constituents and the country is the main thing in their job description, surely.
Do they want to copy the republicans who are not speaking out about Trump?

I think I've read that Caitlin Moran is gender critical.

Thanks Maidofstars.

I don't think Caitlin Moran is sadly Collida, she's a total libfem. She said - and try to get to the end without cringing for her -

"Someone saying to a transgender woman, 'You're not a proper woman because you weren't physically born a woman' is like someone saying to me that I'm not a proper woman because I've had an abortion, or have a job, or can't walk in heels, or think Ryan Gosling looks like a bit of a donk." She adds, "I think the relationship between feminism and transgender women should be absolutely sympathetic, arms-slung-around-shoulders and all-on-the-same-side. We're all gunning for the same thing — equality, feeling comfortable in our own skin, not automatically cringing or feeling unworthy or 'other.'"

She knows what pays the bills too, so even if she has peaktransed since saying that, she's not going to say a word. None of them will.

Sadly Caitlin could not have made a better job of missing the point. As transwomen and women are quite clearly not 'gunning for the same thing'.

'I find it hard to countenance that this is all really happening. It's quite terrifying'

It really is. It's hard to overstate how serious and how wrong this all is

I think we've lost too. But at least in the future when perhaps the horror really comes to light and the silly little libfems who backed all of this for headpats realise what they have done, we'll know that we spoke up against this, and that has to count for something.

Yeah, mrsmig, I had read she'd been accused of terfery, but then went and googled (after posting here... doh!) and found a load of stuff she's said which completely contradicted her being gender critical Ah well.

'Someone saying to a transgender woman, 'You're not a proper woman because you weren't physically born a woman' '

Well then WHAT THE ACTUAL JEFF IS A WOMAN if not someone who was born female???? Oh sorry, I forgot - feelz, and ladybrain, and mascara and fabulousness. FFS. For the thousandth time today

Mrsmiguel, I suspect you're spot on with your comment about her knowing what pays the bills.

I used to really like Caitlin Moran but think she just jumps on whichever bandwagon is down with the kids.

You're so right Violet. She has the odd brilliant moment but apart from that, its a try-hard cringe fest from her

I swear finding gender critical people in the public eye is like crawling through the desert looking for water. You're so desperate you see mirages all over the place and think, "Oh! I think he/she might actually understand that sex is a rea -oh wait, no, they've been challenged and they're dutifully repeating 'trans women are women'." Should really be used to finding that anything that looks like water is actually just more sand by now.

It is absolute, relentless, collective insanity.

I do think if one woman found the ovaries to speak up, others would follow.

Sadly it feels like pissing in the wind sometimes with so few prominent women (or men) willing to speak out. Like so many other situations the groundwork will have to be done by those who are already disenfranchised in many ways. No doubt if the direction takes a strong turn then they will jump on board to reap some reward.

I could be doxxed from now until Xmas but it wouldn't matter that much. See I'm one of those women who had a disabled child (a biological reality very few give a shit about) so any career or job opportunities are in the gutter anyway and have been for some time.

Maybe I would lose loads of friends...no wait..having a disabled child culled most of those over the years.

Maybe I would feel like I couldn't leave the house because of other peoples opinions of me...except...oh yeah that's right I can rarely leave as it is.

Never mind, it's not like being a vagina person has any bearing on the above at all.

just jumps on whichever bandwagon is down with the kids.

I suspect that's why most politicians are backing this. Neither side wants to lose the youth vote by appearing 'bigoted'. Transactivism is huge amongst young people - it's their 'gay rights'.

So is David Davies (Monmouth) the only MP who has actually spoken out and said the Emperor is naked?