Andrew Marr asking gov minister "So is a trans woman a woman?"

[Payfrozen]

On TV now. He's interviewing Corbyn currently discussing housing.

I think maybe you've gone too far and are actually going into transphobia

I've got a real problem with people being accused of transphobia. Phobia means that a person has an irrational fear of something. This word is bandied around far too often, and the people saying it cannot usually define it.

but you are being unnecessarily hateful about those for whom gender dysphoria is a real painful part of their lives, including those who do consider themselves their birth sex but presenting as the opposite sex. It's certainly not a disease

The poster said it was an illness, not disease. And if it isn't an illness why is it treated both surgically and psychologically?

Gender dysphoria is painful? 4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

Gender dysphoria is caused by being homosexual or having a sexual fetish called autogynephilia. I don't particularly feel sorry for either of these types of men. Neither of them belong in women's spaces.

Myownshed

I've reread my own post my apologies ,it comes across as quite angry, I am not as angry as I am scared and worried for my daughter's, my wife,mother and my sister. Especially when half to two thirds of the men who say they are women in prison are sex offenders. This is not just an issue for women but also every father ,husband and brother. This id bill is so easily open to abuse it must not be allowed to go through parliament.

Fucking hell Datun, I'd crowd fund for YOU to challenge this, or for you to start your own political challenge to this.

I keep peaking every time I read your measured, well-written, thoughtful and insightful posts.

Please tell me your on Twitter?

Fucking hell Datun, I'd crowd fund for YOU to challenge this, or for you to start your own political challenge to this.

Me too.

I'm sure other people have a different solution. To repeal the whole thing and keep ALL men out.

I don't know of any husband's or fathers who wouldn't want all men to be kept out. In India 90% of all sexual assaults are opportunistic as opposed to England where 10% are because we have segregated spaces. No men should be allowed in these area's

Well we're fucked aren't we. The tories are eroding our rights left right and centre and now Labour are joining the war on women. I don't agree with not voting but there is nobody I'd currently vote for.

I'm not on Twitter!

I can only handle one addiction a time. Mumsnet, at the moment, is my only vice. Apart from alcohol. My intake of which increases every time I read another column inch.

I thought we were in 2018 not 1820?

Hi,

I haven't rtft, but just popping in to say hello.

I've been lurking on some of your discussions and have found them really enlightening.

I follow an politically neutral educational org called Simple Politics on FB, they posted about the trans discussion on Marr. I've responded saying that I am concerned about self ID. Within minutes someone jumped on and called me a terf. I'm not even sure what it means.

But if anything has made me determined to do something, it's that!

What is the single most influential thing I can do to point out the risks of self ID, please?

Thanks in advance.

Datun for PM!!!!

Catmint:
Maybe ask if they support this transgender person currently on hunger strike wanting to be transferred to a women's prison.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/27/marie-dean-trans-prisoner-male-prison-hunger-strike

(they're actually a convicted sex offender / paedophile / burglar who breaks into teenage girls bedrooms and masturbates into girl's underwear

Thank you rowdywoman1

This is what I mean, this man is going to be let out of prison at some point and I don't want him anywhere near my family.

No worries, Asgardianmale, I want the same thing, women to be safe.

This is a fairly silly Twitter vote on whether trans women should be on AWS. Currently 2/3rds yes, 1/3rd no. It

it's been shared by LM though so will get coverage from a certain echo chamber. It doesn't differentiate between trans women with a GRC and those without so use with discretion twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/957590350373285888

On my local fb page someone has posted a link to David David MP's comments and somebody has commented:

"How is this abhorrent? The only way of securing women's (precarious) rights is by being able to use biology to identify women. It's science!"

I imagine it the comment will be gone by the morning but I just thought I'd share it.

Just read that twitter thread..... one comment: 'my life was great til you started debating it, put down debate.'

No, because you're not the only person it affects, or more important than everyone else, and it's ethically unacceptable to prevent people hearing and thinking about all the information to make an informed decision when you're trying to alter everyone's language, reality, concepts, right to privacy, right to dignity, safeguarding...

It's so bloody childish it's alarming.

David Davies' "transphobic views are abhorrent and out of kilter with Conservative Party policy" according to LGBT+ Conservatives. www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/a-tory-mp-was-called-a-transphobe-by-the-official-tory-lgbt?sub=4734442_120414519&utm_term=.rjy0wAxv9Y#.rjy0wAxv9Y

Just spotted this on buzzfeed. Davis will get hammered for this I expect

@Catmint

You can write to your MP. Very many women are doing this. Even if they know their MP is in favour of self ID.

It really is worth it. Let's get their inboxes pinging with outraged women. They can't ignore us all.

The link below talks you through a letter.

A Woman's Place UK has come up with five points. They are designed to strengthen the exemptions that are already in place, that many retailers/service providers don't know about. We want them to be commonplace.

We want to invoke the equality act if there is a dodgy man in our Marks & Spencer changing room. And for the sales assistant to totally understand and not feel worried.

The five points do not mention transgender.

This is about women and their rights and maintaining them.

A Woman's Place has made headway in lobbying parliament. Their site is worth a browse, (although the actual link is from fair play for women).

The last point suggests you write an anecdotal account. For which you could use the sex offender, with string of convictions, demanding to go to a woman's prison.

The thread about him is on here, and I've left it below. It's worth reading the thread, because the newspaper reporting put a sympathetic slant towards the prisoner, by explicitly leaving out all their offences.

It's this kind of reporting that is irresponsible, incredibly damaging and disgracefully biased. Demonstrating a highly misogynistic agenda that is difficult to justify.

fairplayforwomen.com/womans-place-uk/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3151526-Trans-prisoner-on-hunger-strike-in-mens-prison

If you email, can I suggest you also put a hard copy in the post.

An actual piece of paper is harder to ignore in this day and age.

If I were Marr:

Mr Corbyn, are you a man?
Yes (slight embarrassed laugh)
How do you know that?
Er, um, because I identify as a male
You're saying that your genitals aren't the reason?
Er, no
So, it's your brain, your personality that's male?
How do you know that, if you have never been the other sex?

This is my question:
Can you mandate belief?
Can you codify into law the idea that some people can mind over matter themselves out of material reality and into the opposite sex, and must be treated accordingly?
It is like transubstantiation. A belief that no one actually believes.
Will you allow people to drug and mutilate children based on this belief that no one believes?

Those that are diagnosed with gender dysphoria (and called truscum) generally accept they are male - so I'm a bit confused why they need a law enabling them to live a lie in stealth.

With the advent of same-sex marriage and pension equality the GRA is no longer necessary to access these human rights.

I agree with BetsyM00. The GRA is no longer required. Rather than being amended it should be repealed.

After a conversation with someone the other day who decided they didn't want to talk about it any more when I asked what rights transgender people required, I asked on here if anyone else could think what rights they currently lack. It was a short thread, as the only answer was the right to occupy women's spaces and trample on women's rights. And that amounts to misogynistic and homophobic narcissism.

Repeal the GRA!

Thank you. I will write to my MP, although from experience I doubt there will be any joy there.

And I have posted the link about the prisoner.

Well done Catmint

Can feel onerous writing letters and getting all your thoughts down on paper, covering everything.

Frankly, it's also a numbers game. The more women who object on any grounds, of which there are many, the better.

If your MP sends back some cut-and-paste bollocks, write again. Be relentless.

It's also worth noting that often people achieve far more by an actual visit. Partly because it's easier to explain face-to-face. But also because, it would appear, many MPs often allow their assistants to deal with some letters.

The assistants are often young, right on...

And ask the question. What are you, personally, doing to protect women's rights?

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/feminists-can-oppose-transgender-policy-says-corbyn-j2xkschjk

Follow up article from the times.