Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour against transphobia group - thread 2

917 replies

QuentinSummers · 24/01/2018 21:14

Follow on from
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3144285-Labour-Against-Transphobia-Facebook-group?msgid=75082467#75082467

OP posts:
Thread gallery
36
Battleax · 26/01/2018 15:30

Though if it gets pegged as a 'loony Labour' hmm thing, at least it might dissuade the Tories from seeing it as a vote winner.

Absolutely! Let them rush down that road! Grin

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/01/2018 15:31

I think once it gets out properly it'll be an obvious vote loser whatever colour you are (with the exception perhaps of the Greens who seem to have a fondness for unelectable policies)

womanhuman · 26/01/2018 16:31

Comments on the guido piece on this link.

order-order.com

Please note, the first article about transition is about Brexit. I just saw the headline and had a ‘what fresh hell is this?’ Moment. 😀

AreYouOrHaveYouEverBeenATERF · 26/01/2018 17:14

Comments from Guido Fawkes:

"No sympathy for Jennifer James. This is the ultimate conclusion when females start demanding positive discrimination. Play the victim and there will always be someone/group that will come along and out do you"

"Not quite. It's much worse than that, I would suggest. These trans activists have chosen not to compete with feminists for power as a separate group, but to appropriate the feminist position by identifying themselves as the most marginalized and therefore deserving of women as a group, largely because other women refuse to recognize them as women in the first place. The irony of it all. You battle patriarchy, only to find your hard earned gains stolen by a bloke in a dress."

"If you think about it, it's the equivalent of someone blacking up, saying that they have identified as Nigerian since childhood, and challenging Keith Vaz for the BAME seat on Labour's NEC. How would people react to that?"

So, right-wingers (who are generally against such things as AWS) feel feminists have been hoist by their own petard - but certainly are under no illusion that 'transwomen are women'.

flapsDentata · 26/01/2018 17:21

Checking in with another name change.

AreYouOrHaveYouEverBeenATERF · 26/01/2018 17:23

And this is from Twitter - which reflects my views entirely - as a generally bleeding heart lefty type, I don't like being called a bigot....

"What do you think is motivating these so called TERFs? I mean really?

Have decent people who fought for equality for decades suddenly gone to the dark side?

Is that plausible? Really?

So maybe they might have some genuine concerns."

As far as I can see, not one person has answered that tweet. Not even with the 'transwomen are women' mantra.

BeyondWitchbitchterf · 26/01/2018 17:26

I've asked similar quite a few times, areyou. Always tumbleweeds...

pamish · 26/01/2018 17:43

Fundraiser tops £20,000.
Ten minutes ago.

So £20,045 raised by 1,150 people in 13 days . That's a lot of angry (mostly) LP members. Are you listening JC? Stella? Dawn? Angela?

HairyBallTheorem · 26/01/2018 17:45

FlapsDentata can I be the first to congratulate you on a thoroughly fabulous name change.

catgirl1976 · 26/01/2018 19:16

Jaysus I'm being eaten alive by TRAs on twitter tonight.

I'll have to stay off Twitter once I've opened my wine or I'll lose my ability to be calm and rational Angry

pamish · 26/01/2018 19:18

Re Labour Women's Network www.lwn.org.uk/
"Labour Women’s Network exists to secure the election of more Labour women to public office at every level and to support Labour women to play a full part in the Party."
Seems like they could be useful here as they were a moving force behind AWS originally. Then I saw this:

  1. MEMBERSHIP a) Individuals who self-define as women who are full members of the Labour Party may become members and support the activities of Labour Women's Network by payment of an annual subscription.
(Which excludes me as I just Am, but there's no other category for me.) Is anyone here involved with them? Do you think they believe this, or are they another group that thinks self-ID is law now? .
flapsDentata · 26/01/2018 19:35

Hairy - try putting your Lady dick in that BRAH! 😂

thebewilderness · 26/01/2018 19:39

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

Popchyk · 26/01/2018 19:47

Has anyone asked on Twitter if transwomen are entitled to paid maternity leave?

If they are not entitled to maternity leave then why not?

Surely men who have self-identified as women can also self-identify as pregnant?

thebewilderness · 26/01/2018 19:51

"Has anyone noticed that transwomen make the news for success in business, sport, the arts and politics, while transmen make the news for having babies?" anon
The Feminazgûl

UpstartCrow · 26/01/2018 19:51

Popchyk Up til now The Equality Act has specifically stated that if an adjustment does not affect you, you cannot make a claim of discrimination if you are denied either access to that adjustment, or given a similar right.

Sex has been a protected characteristic, listing 'men' and 'women' as the 2 sex classes.

But there's been a push to remove us from the EU, remove protection given by the EU human rights legislation, and The Equality Act is the next casualty. the Tories have already rewritten it so as to give transgender people an ambiguous amount of rights.

I think its going to take a series of test cases to sort this out.

Popchyk · 26/01/2018 19:58

Thanks, Upstart.

If this mantra of transwomen are women gains any further ground and "women" comes to mean "biological women and men who say they are women" then men who identify as women will have that sex-based protection.

Self-identifying as pregnant is not any more bonkers than self-identifying as a woman for me.

I fear the day when a bloke takes his employer to court for not allowing him maternity leave is fast approaching.

And he'll probably win.

AreYouOrHaveYouEverBeenATERF · 26/01/2018 20:07

Ah, catgirl - you can't argue with the irrational Thanks but good on you for trying.

I've read a few threads on twitter today that come up in JJ's mentions. It's madness, and maddening. Literal gaslighting, like arguing with religious zealots. You can't argue against a belief in a false/made up premise.

It is a cult.

LadyDickHead · 26/01/2018 22:40

Fucks sake, turns out DH seems to be of the opinion transwomen are women. I asked him if he'd ever consider a relationship with one, "of course not! I mean legally not literally". He's pretty much shrugging it all off as no big deal, what with him being a fucking man. Even when I pointed out he does have a daughter, I just got an eye roll Angry
It hadn't even occurred to me that he wouldn't be on the same page, he's a pretty pragmatic lefty on everything else Hmm
I'm pretty sure I'm not a bigot...

PidgeonPodge · 26/01/2018 22:50

I have great respect for anyone that has managed to stay on twitter.

I'm currently on a holiday from it, I just couldn't take the mindless repetitiveness of the chants and threats.

QuentinSummers · 26/01/2018 22:51

lady I can't talk to my DH about it. The only time we have had a conversation that was OK was after watching "Transgender children: who knows best?"
He doesn't get it. Sad

OP posts:
OnLiamsList · 26/01/2018 22:55

I think it would be a fantastic show of solidarity if loads of women could show up on 15th Feb with banners and suchlike "Say no to Male Violence" and fill the public gallery and the papers will cover it and the TV news etc.

OnLiamsList · 26/01/2018 22:55

Like the new username?

DarthArts · 26/01/2018 23:07

Spoke to DH about it last night.

He said it wasn't an issue he'd thought much about - was generally of the view each to their own.

Having spoken to him he's of the opinion that medical intervention for children is abusive.

Wrt self identification he finds it absurd and can't believe it could possibly become law. Feels that common sense will prevail despite my arguments that it's already happening in other countries and by pressure in the UK.

Felt very different when I told him about how Top Shop let men into women's communal changing rooms and how he'd feel about that happening when his daughter was trying on clothes. How men are competing in women's sports events. How a women's officer in the Labour Party is a man. Etc etc

I think many people just don't realise what's happening. When they are educated about the implications they are shocked.

Upshot is DH gets it and says if standing up to the madness means being labelled a TERF then so what. Better a TERF than a lemming following the TRA's off the cliff of SI insanity.

EggbertNobacon · 26/01/2018 23:14

Another one whose DH thinks they're a bigot here Shock