Labour against transphobia group - thread 2

[QuentinSummers]

Follow on from
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3144285-Labour-Against-Transphobia-Facebook-group?msgid=75082467#75082467

@scramwich I had thought of that too.

They obviously don’t give a shit when it’s only the little women that are affected.
But if we could try and actually get something that WILL affect them then they might grudgingly give it headspace.

Direct link here to Natascha and Mark's sterling work that they wrote "together" -

www.gjss.org/sites/default/files/issues/chapters/papers/Journal-07-02--02-Kennedy-Hellen.pdf

Reluctant, i wouldn't call someone by their male name in real life but im speculating that perhaps people do it because they don't want to validate the trans movement by going along with any part of it. If you agree to call Simon, Susan, and use female pronouns then you're another person who is giving the outward sign that you regard this person as female, even if you don't. If you believe that person is male, then i can see why you might use male pronouns otherwise you're speaking a lie and to some, that's more important than protecting one individuals feelings.

lso, I see a lot of people refusing to call transwomen by their newly chosen names. I'm genuinely curious about this, can any one explain the reasoning? Do these people insist on calling Elton John 'Reg Dwight' and Sting 'Gordon Sumner'?

If Elton John decided now to call himself Reg no one would call him Reg.

His mother probably did call him Reg his whole life.

Additionally, he isn't trying to trick anyone to believe he is someone else by calling himself Elton John. If he had changed his name to Zhang Wei to convince people he was Chinese, no one would go along with it.

Happy to use transwomen's new names if they are respectful to women but it's out of politeness. I don't owe anyone.

I don't even know Miranda Yardley's birth name and I don't care to learn it.

But like fuck would I call "Danielle" Muscato, Danielle in real life.

They obviously don’t give a shit when it’s only the little women that are affected. But if we could try and actually get something that WILL affect them then they might grudgingly give it headspace.

Anyone fancy writing it? I do think it would make people think twice, there is no real reason they can justify not changing it too. Not if people lying about their gender "never happens". At least if the GR ID laws went through I'd feel slightly better in knowing that loads of women could suddenly profit off it.

www.gov.uk/petition-government

Pilgrim had asked for a secret vote and it was refused

Of course it was refused. Because they know as well as we do that once the 'you are transphobic' threat disappears, the huge majority of people do not buy it.

TBH I don't give a shit about names. If someone changes their name for whatever reason I would try to use their chosen name.

However, names are not pronouns and I will no longer use the wrong pronouns for the individuals sex.

Direct link here to Natascha and Mark's sterling work that they wrote "together"

It must be really annoying to have to change names and not have your previous employment be attached to your new name.

Thank god that doesn't happen to women

Calling trans people by their chosen names I actually have no problem with at all. Everyone gets to choose what they want to be called - that's basic human dignity - and while names have gendered associations, they don't in and of themselves make someone a man or a woman, any more than wearing a dress does or doesn't. I do think that regarding 'deadnaming' as literal violence is absurd. I don't use my husband's surname but I politely correct other people when they assume I do; I don't rant about how they've committed violence against me. But the point was made by a pp that we should be careful not to endorse unpleasant behaviour towards individuals (eg mocking the appearance of trans women in wearing dresses) as part and parcel of rightly challenging the twisting and appropriating of sex based rights and freedoms. Frankly, calling Danielle Muscato emphasises the absurdity of it for me.

Great post buttery 👏

I guess for agp's a big part of the thrill is the feeling of transgression. I do wonder if wearing skirts and calling yourself (for example) Lily was no longer a transgressive act for a man whether some of them might find a new obsession.

Guido is on the case again

order-order.com/2018/01/26/labour-suspend-campaigner-keep-women-shortlists-real-women-dont-dicks-tweet/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
LABOUR SUSPEND CAMPAIGNER TO KEEP ALL WOMEN SHORTLISTS REAL OVER “WOMEN DON’T HAVE DICKS” TWEET

Ooh, that's better than the last one I think.

Really shows up the total ridiculousness of this

Some great articles coming out. Right wing, left wing who cares as long as they are pushing the discussion in the right direction and not trying to silence or bully us.

That guido article is perfect. I keep trying to imagine this being discussed on the today programme but can't fill in the blanks for what the trans activist would say as I've never heard them put forward an argument

They need to go on and on about 'female penises' and perhaps then people will understand the level of bat shit reality bending that is going on..

It’s relatively easy to avoid using names at all, I very rarely use anyone’s name, it always feels wrong (it’s an asd thing I think)

Women don't have penises

Why can't that be a slogan?

^^ CAAKE Direct link here to Natascha and Mark's sterling work that they wrote "together" Does that journal not check submissions in any way, shape or form ?

Took a look at Marks' profile still in on Goldsmiths' website and had to snort at he/she is
"focussing on how children deal with information in the online context; the “I” in ICT".

Was with a group of friends, from across the political spectrum, the other night and not one had heard any of this. They're not on Twitter and Facebook is just for family & friends photos. Tried explaining the 'lesbian with a dick' concept. We may have had but howls of laughter was the response.

GF again, yay

Why can't that be a slogan?

#Womendonthavedicks is doing okay as a hashtag

Other link doesn’t seem to have comments (or is that just my phone?)
order-order.com/2018/01/26/labour-suspend-campaigner-keep-women-shortlists-real-women-dont-dicks-tweet/

Only thing with the Guido piece is that it doesn't admit that the Tories have to date been headed down the self-id road too. Though if it gets pegged as a 'loony Labour' thing, at least it might dissuade the Tories from seeing it as a vote winner.