Trans friendly thread!

[100lbtolose]

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

I know that many of the parents putting their kids on Lupron think that they're doing the right thing, but sometimes loving a child means saying no, or at least "not yet".

The simple answer imo is to give the child space to figure out who they are. Obviously if any kind of therapy or counselling is needed that then should be available (and was ime readily available until relatively recently) but certainly not drugs.

Follow the childs lead and if they think being referred to and being known as the opposite sex pronoun helps them then respect that. Humour them and use the prounouns of their choice.

Also make sure they know that they can wear whatever they want and be interested in whatever they want.

Don't tell them that they can change sex because that's not true and just downright cruel to build someone who is suffering from gender dyshoria's hopes up like that. They will find out at some point that they've been lied to and they'll be crushed.

And the thing is that Lupron isn't a harmless drug, there's a reason there was a class action lawsuit filed against the manufacturer. Of course a child won't understand the concept of bone density and why sacrificing some of it is a bad idea in the long term, but the adults do and it's their job to protect the child until that child is old enough that they can understand whatever treatment they're signing up for.

Sorry for a change in pace, but I just posted this on another thread and found it (in my head) surprisingly relevant.....

You can make your own casting decisions for the the Suckers, Cheats and Grudgers....

--

In "The Selfish Gene" Richard Dawkins describes a hypothetical situation: there are three types of birds in a population, the sucker, the cheat, and the grudger. The birds tend to get parasites on them, and need another bird to peck off the parasites. If a bird is regularly groomed then it has a large advantage, and if it does not have to use the energy to clean another bird it has a slight advantage. The suckers clean everyone, the the cheat doesn't clean anyone, and the grudger cleans someone until it is obvious that they are not reciprocating, and then stops. Richard Dawkins simulates this scenario on a computer, and this is what he finds:
"The first thing that happens is a dramatic crash in the population of suckers as the cheats ruthlessly exploit them. The cheats enjoy a soaring population explosion, reaching their peak just as the last sucker perishes. But the cheats still have the grudgers to reckon with. During the precipitous decline of the suckers, the grudgers have been slowly decreasing in numbers, taking a battering from the prospering cheats, but just managing to hold their own. After the last sucker has gone and the cheats can no longer get away with selfish exploitation so easily, the grudgers slowly begin to increase at the cheats' expense. Steadily their population rise gathers momentum. It accelerates steeply, the cheat population crashes to near extinction, and then levels out as they enjoy the privileges of rarity and the comparative freedom from grudges which this brings. However, slowly and inexorably the cheats are driven out of existance, and the grudgers are left in sole possession. Paradoxically, the presence of the suckers actually endangered the grudgers early on in the story because they were responsible for the temporary prosperity of the cheats."

I've found this thread extremely informative.

Given it's nearly full I'd be sad to see it die.

I think, it would be very apt, if either @OrderMeACurry or @PidgeonPodge would be willing to start it

Datun

I doubt it; I’ve only seen the term used to point out what they are.

“Well, apart from the cis bullshit, I don't think anyone disagrees with supporting transwomen, even though that's not part of feminism.”

Why should I want to support men, especially ones parading their fetishes and demanding submission? They don’t just have no place in feminism, they’re utterly opposed to it.

pilatesofthecaribbean

Datun

I doubt it; I’ve only seen the term used to point out what they are.

Sorry Pilates, i'm not quite sure which bit you are replying to?

*There are two types of transwomen.

Men with gender dysphoria and autogynephiles (AGP). Men with a sexual fetish*

Just holding my hand up to say yet again that there is a third 'type', although they are more apt to just call themselves trans* or queer and these are the SJW TRA Antifa lot. Many of this somewhat eclectic bunch start out from a position of misogyny and are in it explicitly to keep women down. They are the ones hurling 'truscum' abuse and who are quite likely the ones that get their jollies out of abusing women online.

I think this thread will close at some point today but before it does. I just want to say thank you to all of you for posting your thoughts so clearly and without malice. It's really helped clarify some of my thinking. I'm proud of how we all rose to the debate without rising to the provocation.

Go Vipers

Although, further to my post above, I suspect that a lot of these individuals do have fetishes, although these are not necessarily AGP per se. They are often in the realms of BDSM though.

YY
there is a whole wave of 'queer poly kink friendly' trans activists who are sexually preoccupied and entitled and utterly misogynistic. Thy don't understand or respect consent and they feel entitled to coerce others into validating them through violence if necessary. They have NOTHING in common with any trans person I've ever met

YetAnotherSpartacus

I absolutely agree with that.

There seems to be an awful lot of disaffected young men (and some women) who display a misogyny that is staggering in its sense of sovereignty.

All fashioned male chauvinism is bad enough, but often tempered with a there, there dear, don't bother your pretty little head.

But this new wave of hate seems as though it has been furiously seeking a target, and decided that women are it.

What can I hate? I know, women! Let's get them.

Not necessarily driven by an ideology, trans or otherwise.

Just seething thuggery.

But this new wave of hate seems as though it has been furiously seeking a target, and decided that women are it

Yeeeesssss ... although having met some of these fuckers I think it is the other way around. They have a seething, boiling hatred of women and the trans agenda gives them a perfect outlet for this, whilst it also allows them to maintain their 'cool' status and, importantly, play the victim.

Many of these men are gay - see the lesbian thread for the OP's comments re how many gay men really hate women/lesbians.

I had to look up SJW TRA Antifa.
Social Justice Warrior Trans Right Activist Antifascist. Correct?

This is the element of men, who wish to expunge women and see the most effective way being to become them. ie If you can’t beat them, infiltrate and smash from within, that is what you are saying, isn’t it?

DarthArts your analogy is chilling.

Mummyoflittledragon - yes. All correct. Antifa are worth pursuing because they are eclectic, but often quite nasty and vicious and see it as socially justified to support things like gathering arms and citizens' militias. They are currently most active in the US. Look up 'queer trans gun club' and 'pink bloc'.

This is the element of men, who wish to expunge women and see the most effective way being to become them. ie If you can’t beat them, infiltrate and smash from within, that is what you are saying, isn’t it

In essence yes. I think they are riding the crest of the trans wave. What worries me the most is that I suspect that they are the ones (alongside some whacko parents and organisations such as mermaids) who are most behind legal challenges to allow children to take lupron and hormones earlier and earlier. Essentially, they are grooming little converts.

They terrify me, not the least because I do cross paths with them and am not very good at keeping my big mouth shut.

It's Incredibly chilling that these men are allowed to target women, by merely changing the perception of who the women are.

This man, for instance, is referring to cis scum. He's absolutely not referring to men. And his use of the word cis makes it quite clear he is referring to women who disagree with him. So all women.

Normal, everyday women have been re-branded as hateful, evil animals.

Yes. That is a good example of the kind of TRA I am most concerned about. They are thugs and they hate us, but they have been successful in making us look like the antagonists and them the victims.

Spartacus
Thanks for your answer. I have had the belief for some time that MRA’s and similar make up part of the TRA movement.

I fell into a Twitter wormhole last night. Reading through some tweets from Lily Madigan's replies, I followed the hashtag #transgirl

I scrolled for approx 30 seconds and was absolutely horrified. If you are of sensitive disposition I strongly recommend that you do not do this. If you want to know what the "ladydick" business is all about then gird your loins and take a look.

Peak trans peaked yet again. I do not want these people in women's spaces.

I fell into a Twitter wormhole last night. Reading through some tweets from Lily Madigan's replies, I followed the hashtag #transgirl

Just searched that, and really wish I didn't was someone with a video up of 'learning to grip' something with their..privates. I clicked the page off and don't dare go back.

I was just about to say, do not search that hashtag.

Assuming you want to but you are not a twitter user how do you? I'm asking for a friend.

Christ on a bike, by the standard of #TransGirl I am an awful woman.

Mainly because my whole being doesn't revolve around me presenting a hyper sexualised version of my body to the world via the internet, and focusing my entire being on my sexuality and perceived attractiveness to other people as the sum of my worth.

Me and my stupid ladybrain being all intellectual and active.

Tell your friend to simply go to Twitter.com and search for it there, including the hashtag. 😀 Be ready for your friend with the brain bleach. (It seems, I daren’t look.)

I should have worded my warning more strongly ⚠️⚠️⚠️🤢