Trans friendly thread!

[100lbtolose]

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

Especially when the kids start hearing it at under 10 years old. We teach them to trust adults, why would they think they're being lied to?

Terry I would recommend learning from Riley J Dennis about why it isn't ok to have preferences -even slight ones for pinballs!

I'm sure that Riley's relationship with someone who's young, attractive, and biologically female is the result of coincidence and in no way reflects any unapproved tendency towards having preferences.

Collidascope

You are right, I should examine my (slight) preference for Pinballs so that I can be more inclusive - although why do I get the feeling that RJD would prefer us all to favour Joystixx...

Collida Your wrapper etiquette is excellent! And, as the wrapper is the only bit that matters, you're in!! You go girl!!!

Mmmmm, Spangles, the boiled sweet that wouldn't melt in your mouth, but if you put it in your pocket would immediately denature into a semi-liquid mess and soak into the corners of your anorak pocket and gum up your mittens.

Article in the Globe And Mail: Don't treat all cases of gender dysphoria the same way
There is a paywall but you can get 2 free articles if you sign up with your email address.

I'm a trans ally OP. My child is a trans identifying female.
Speaking as a trans ally, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Self ID will be disastrous for my child and many other people who have genuine dysphoria. Allowing anyone who simply claims to be trans into spaces where vulnerable people are puts everyone at risk, including actual trans people.

Trans people don't want self ID. Trans activists do. The same trans activists which ran my child off social media because as a survivor of abuse, the thought of sex with a penis is distressing and abhorrent. They don't give a shit about people with genuine dysphoria and neither do you.
You aren't an ally you're a virtue signalling bigot and you don't speak for our trans family.

Brava redtoothbrush

wappers

So, 868 posts, multiple transpeople, the parent of a trans child and hundreds of other reasoned and rational responses later and still the fucking OP can't admit she's got it completely, totally wrong.

Shame on her. And he little mates who joined in to wave their little I'm so right on it hurts virtue signalling flags. Shame indeed.

I think that trans people and their families could be helped by there being honesty about the reality of what it actually is like and how its a grenade in the lives of all, instead of casting them into the roles of the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys'.

They need to be able to talk about it without fear and abuse.

The more comments I see on this subject and the lack of support the more I think its a really big bloody issue. Its isolating enough without the thought police wading in.

Wappers there is no standing ovation emoji, so I'm just going to give you .

I know this tends to get thrown straight into the "hate and bigotry" category, but I really think it needs to be openly discussed in terms of children transitioning. Going by what trans adults say, transitioning severely limits your number of potential sexual and romantic partners (while at the same time also increasing your chances of attracting a subset of fetishists whose attention you'd probably rather avoid). TRAs would say this is the result of bigotry among the public, I disagree, but either way, it seems that if you make this choice it will have a significant impact on your future options in terms of finding partners, which is something that's important to most people at some stage in their life.

Is this being discussed with young people who're transitioning at all? And in a realistic way, not just "don't worry by the time it matters to you we'll have gotten past all this bigotry" way? Even if it was discussed I'm not sure a kid below a certain age is really capable of taking on board what that will mean for them in the long run, and having that conversation in an age appropriate way could be challenging, but it doesn't seem like it's happening at all, and it should be.

Thank you OP. I really mean that.

It's threads like these that remind me to be more forceful when discussing sex and gender with my 2 DSs. They are 5 and 7. The 5yr old loves pink, sparkles, rainbows and unicorns. Putting his hair in a ponytail, and using my makeup. 7 year old, not so much, but still sensitive and nurturing.

All good, I've always encouraged them to express themselves however they want. However, I'm horrified that school could be teaching my 5yo that this means he's a girl. I've seen some of the nonsense that is being used in schools to illustrate the gender spectrum.

Can anyone assure me that it has not reached Scottish primary schools?

red

I agree

Its a massive grenade

A friend of mine is going through this with their young adult child

Its horrendous, they are doing the absolute best they can and the child is obviously very loved whatever the eventual outcome

Self ID will be disastrous for my child and many other people who have genuine dysphoria. Allowing anyone who simply claims to be trans into spaces where vulnerable people are puts everyone at risk, including actual trans people.

This x 1000.

[Flowers] Wappers

Applauds Wappers.

I've NC'd for this post, although I have posted on this thread already. This post may out me, or my friend, which I don't want.

I've been friends with a couple of trans identifying people. 1 of whom I was very close friends with & supported through the first stages of researching his preferred identity. I waited outside the doctor's when he went for his first appointment. I held his hand as he came out to our friends, & we talked about how & when he'd come out to his parents. I listened as he talked about the years of therapy etc he'd need to go through, the 2 years of living as his preferred gender, before any hormone therapy could start. He always seemed awed at what a massive step it was to take, & even though he'd known for years that he wasn't "just" a lesbian, he was still happy to wait. Not just because he was still under 18, but because it was such an enormous, irreversible step. And he recognised the risks. But, by then he was surrounded by friends who accepted him as he was.

By rushing people, especially children, into & through transition, I'm terribly concerned that they aren't being given the right to question it. To find out for themselves, to be scared or sure on their own terms. I'm worried that they may look back & wish they had been allowed to take the time. It took my friend over a decade to complete his transition.

I suspect the OP (with no posting history), is hoping for some nasty, mean feminists to say something vitriolic that can be tweeted

It's so obvious.
I'm not convinced she's even in her 40's.
I've never seen so much use of the word totally.

The language is more suited to a student.
Probably using our supposedly transphobic views as part of some micky mouse coursework assignment.
It's a shit stirring exercise.
Not even a good one.

Wappers you have really clearly described what so many trans friends and actual allies (not the more virtuous than yow TRAs) have said again and again. That self-ID is dangerous for trans people, as are the actions of those TRAs. I'm so sorry your child was bullied by these people

Even so, it's been a great thread for learning and sharing. Massive thanks to all those who have stuck their heads over the parapet.

Hi OP.
I have a close family member who is a trans woman and is transitioning. This is impacting our family directly.
My loved one has had to have her anxiety meds increased recently because of the kinds of attitudes people like you are displaying. My loved one just wants to be left in peace to live her life.. not used as a pawn to virtue signal and push an aggressive agenda.
You are not an ally to us. You are harming us.

Well said.
I'm sure most want to be left in peace.

There are two types of transwomen.

Men with gender dysphoria and autogynephiles (AGP). Men with a sexual fetish.

It is the latter who are pushing for self ID. They don't want gender dysphoria to be the cornerstone of being trans.

Because that is not the reason they transition. They fetishise womanhood. They are the ones who say they are lesbians, talk about their lady dick and insist they're actual, biological women. Because it's a sexual compulsion to be thought of as a woman. (Eighty percent of transwomen keep their genitalia, and AGP individuals remain attracted to women.)

Which is why you are encountering this disconnect between the transwomen on here and the ones online.

Please. If you do nothing else, just read up on this. Everything will suddenly make so much more sense to you.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/amp/

It explains the disconnect.

my take on that would be "do nothing at all until they grow up",

And from an adults perspective, I would agree with that.

If you'd asked me what I wanted when I actually was a child then I have no doubt in my mind that I would have wanted to take puberty blockers in a heartbeat. I also have no doubt that I would have hated my parents when they refused and that I would feel I wasn't been listened to. But of course that would be the perspective of my child self and like you said, children do not have the capacity to make such life changing decisions and what may seem like a good idea at the time might be a decision that will end up being regretted.