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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Break it down for me?

979 replies

TortiousTortoise · 20/01/2018 22:16

Hi all, I am fairly new to the discussion on the impact that transwomen are having on women generally and I want to more fully understand the issues (been trying to talk to my husband about it and am struggling to articulate it).

I feel so awkward writing about this as I definitely don't want to come across as sounding horrible about transpeople, I just want to understand.

Also there are a lot of acronyms being thrown about. Can anyone help me out?

OP posts:
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Helleofabore · 04/03/2022 07:25

The latest from National Academy of Medicine, France. They have issued a press release about treatment for gender disphoria in children and adolescents.

SEGM have translated it, but also linked up the original version.

segm.org/France-cautions-regarding-puberty-blockers-and-cross-sex-hormones-for-youth

Extract

Transgender identity is a feeling of identifying as a gender different from that assigned at birth, which is persistent and lasts more than 6 months. This experience can cause significant and prolonged distress, which can contribute to an increased risk of suicide [a].

No genetic predisposition has been found.

While this condition has been long recognized, a sharp increase in demand for medical interventions has been observed (1,2) first in North America, then in Northern Europe, and, more recently, in France, particularly among children and adolescents. A recent study of a number of high schools in Pittsburgh revealed a prevalence that is clearly higher than previously estimated in the United States (3): 10% of students declared themselves to be transgender or non-binary or were unsure of their gender [b]. In 2003, the Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne diagnosed only one child with gender dysphoria, whereas today it treats nearly 200.

Whatever the mechanisms involved in adolescents - excessive engagement with social media, greater social acceptability, or influence by those in one’s social circle - this epidemic-like phenomenon manifests itself in the emergence of cases or even clusters of cases in the adolescents’ immediate surroundings (4). This primarily social problem is due, in part, to the questioning of an overly dichotomous view of gender identity by some young people.

The demand for medical interventions, due to the distress that this condition (which is not a mental illness per se) causes, leads to a growing supply of care in the form of consultations or care in specialized clinics. This involves many pediatric subspecialties. The psychiatric consultations are utilized first, and if the identity is authentic and the discomfort persists, endocrinology, gynecology and, ultimately, surgery become involved.

However, great medical caution must be taken in children and adolescents, given the vulnerability, particularly psychological, of this population and the many undesirable effects and even serious complications that can be caused by some of the therapies available. In this regard, it is important to recall the recent decision (May 2021) of the Karolinska University Hospital in Stockholm to prohibit the use of puberty blockers.

If France allows the use of puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones with parental authorization and no age limitations, the greatest caution is needed in their use, taking into account the side-effects such as the impact on growth, bone weakening, risk of sterility, emotional and intellectual consequences and, for girls, menopause-like symptoms.

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Rubidium · 04/03/2022 09:11
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Helleofabore · 09/03/2022 20:30

This is advice from UKRI about giving consideration to both sexes in experiments. It has quite an number of interest points.

Consider both sexes in experimental design

Mandy MacLean MBE, FRSE, FMedSci, FBPhS
Professor of Pulmonary Pharmacology, Institute of Pharmacy and Biomedical Sciences, University of Strathclyde
9 March 2022



This quote is useful.

To be clear, I refer here to ‘sex’ which is defined by a set of biological attributes, as opposed to gender, which is a societal construct. Animals do not have a gender.

Sex differences can impact metabolism of drugs and hormones, and non-specific effects of drugs and their side-effects. In addition, every cell has a sex and male and female cells have different characteristics and responses to experimental conditions.





www.ukri.org/blog/consider-both-sexes-in-experimental-design/

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Helleofabore · 10/03/2022 12:17

Just adding this link to the Cass Review Interim Report.

cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/The-Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Bookmarked.pdf

I am sure if it is removed from this link for any reason, we will replace it with other links to the document.

What is repeated through out is the 'lack of evidence' that underlines any of the use of PB or cross sex hormones in the treatment of not only children but of adults.

I think it is an important turning point in this argument. If posters find it unacceptable to admit that there is a lack of evidence and keep posting 'studies' that amount to marketing research studies then interrogated by doctors who should know better and so on, please get those posters to tell us what they understand that Dr Hilary Cass and her team of experts don't.

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Helleofabore · 10/03/2022 12:29

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4501337-The-Cass-Review-Interim-Report

And the discussion thread discussing the various sections.

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Baaaa · 12/03/2022 06:42

Thank you not read the whole thread but this is very interesting to a "newbie" to the debate. I did a bit more reading after seeing loads of people on linked in doing x's for international woman's day and then also mentioning transgender in their posts and thinking the two didn't quite sit right together.

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Helleofabore · 12/03/2022 12:31

For the Mandy MacLean article, put this link into wayback machine or an archive site. It has been removed for some reason.

//www.ukri.org/blog/consider-both-sexes-in-experimental-design/

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Helleofabore · 13/03/2022 13:02

This is a twitter link with a pdf link for the NHS distributed booklet called ‘Cruising: A Trans Guy’s Guide To The Gay Sex Scene’


twitter.com/mike__powell/status/1502902323424763911?s=21

With its references such as how sex work can be used to assist private trans surgeries, how to engage in sex where the transman (ie. Potentially a teen or very young adult) gives oral sex while genitals covered so sex partner is deceived. (Of course, the female derives no sexual pleasure out of the interaction) And other very problematic and misogynistic bits of advice.

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Baaaa · 16/03/2022 09:58

@Baaaa

Thank you not read the whole thread but this is very interesting to a "newbie" to the debate. I did a bit more reading after seeing loads of people on linked in doing x's for international woman's day and then also mentioning transgender in their posts and thinking the two didn't quite sit right together.

Oh!! I thought this thread sounded familiar! I forgot I'd found this before. Thanks to everyone who pointed me back here. Will read more!
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Leafstamp · 21/03/2022 14:03

Very good video from Andrew Doyle in this tweet - uses comparison with Emperors New Clothes and Orwell quote
mobile.twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1505667133627420674

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DrBlackbird · 22/03/2022 08:10

.

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UltimateIrritant · 24/03/2022 09:46

.

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materialrealitygirl · 26/03/2022 06:20

Welcome to all the new people coming here after hearing about Mumsnet on twitter this week!

This thread is an excellent primer if you'd like something that explains the arguments.

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materialrealitygirl · 26/03/2022 07:02

Magdelen Bern's videos are a great place to start, also, on understanding why many people have issues with gender identity theory.

For example, meet Alex Drummond. Do you think this person is a woman, the same as you? If not, why not?

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materialrealitygirl · 26/03/2022 07:02

Oops, wrong thread! (Although it fits well here!)

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FemaleAndLearning · 28/03/2022 21:32

After the Starmer interview on LBC just giving this a bump (if it works) so any new lurkers can read it. This should be pinned to the top of sex and gender.

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Helleofabore · 30/03/2022 11:17

Adding this here for the hip diagram.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3081c8c0-af7c-11ec-8b8c-0207c0fd6104?shareToken=dfc4c5b36b407a8e0ccc2133e718b121

Alternatively archive today/u4oSa a

There is also a poll

Should transgender athletes be allowed to compete with women?

(also not necessarily clear as it doesn't clarify transitioned females)

7 131 votes with 98% saying no

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WellThatsMeScrewed · 30/03/2022 12:30

[quote materialrealitygirl]Magdelen Bern's videos are a great place to start, also, on understanding why many people have issues with gender identity theory.

For example, meet Alex Drummond. Do you think this person is a woman, the same as you? If not, why not?

[/quote]
Not seen this one.

Expanding the bandwidth of femininity. WTAF?
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WellThatsMeScrewed · 30/03/2022 12:31

Is that like eating too much cake so my trousers no longer fit me?

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FiniteSagacity · 07/04/2022 20:46

DS was told in school that it would be transphobic to refuse to consider a trans woman (biological male) as a (sex) partner. DS is pretty sure he is not homosexual and that he is heterosexual. DS is happy for other people to be homosexual or bisexual or identify as whatever gender label they want. I am Shock to hear secondary schools are telling children they will be transphobic for making their own choice for themselves. Body autonomy and the right to say no matter.

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FiniteSagacity · 07/04/2022 20:49

Thank you for this thread and for all the posters who have helped to educate me as a parent and as a woman about the safe spaces and safeguarding issues we (and our children) are facing.

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Pixies74 · 07/04/2022 21:36

Really informative thread.

Can I ask a question? I have a school mum 'friend' (really, she's my DD's BF's mum) who, whilst she doesn't necessarily proclaim to be a feminist, is all about IWD, 'strong' women, equality between the sexes, has enrolled her DD in the Scout faction, rather than the Guides/Brownies etc, buys her DD books celebrating women in history, etc. All fine.

However, she is also a staunch supporter of Trans rights, many many posts about trans visibility and trans women are women etc...

These two beliefs don't align to me... Would anyone be able to explain to me
?

(I'd honestly love to know her views on trans women in women's sport, safe spaces for women.. Think her head might explode).

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Helleofabore · 07/04/2022 21:43

Hi Pixies74

Maybe start your own thread for this. This thread is nearing 40 pages (so if your discussion takes off you will have no space for it here) and this thread now acts as an archive so we have a handy spot to search for the links and the information on one thread.

I think you will find plenty of advice on a dedicated thread though.

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Pixies74 · 07/04/2022 21:44

I have to say, I agree with the former views, but not the latter (which in my opinion are incredibly contradictory) which is what puzzles me...

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Pixies74 · 07/04/2022 21:45

@Helleofabore

Hi Pixies74

Maybe start your own thread for this. This thread is nearing 40 pages (so if your discussion takes off you will have no space for it here) and this thread now acts as an archive so we have a handy spot to search for the links and the information on one thread.

I think you will find plenty of advice on a dedicated thread though.

Great, thank you 👍
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