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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Break it down for me?

972 replies

TortiousTortoise · 20/01/2018 22:16

Hi all, I am fairly new to the discussion on the impact that transwomen are having on women generally and I want to more fully understand the issues (been trying to talk to my husband about it and am struggling to articulate it).

I feel so awkward writing about this as I definitely don't want to come across as sounding horrible about transpeople, I just want to understand.

Also there are a lot of acronyms being thrown about. Can anyone help me out?

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 25/08/2023 07:44
Helleofabore · 02/09/2023 19:37

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/02/nhs-backed-trans-maternity-report-could-have-harmed-women/

Trans maternity report backed by NHS ‘could have harmed women’ 

New study says ‘methodologically flawed’ research by LGBT Foundation made misleading claims and spurious recommendations.

Sarah Knapton, 2 Sept 2023

Now researchers at the universities of Oxford, Coventry and the West of England Bristol have reexamined the report and found major flaws. Respondents had given birth over a 30-year period, with many not actually presenting as trans or non-binary during their pregnancy.

They also found that survey questions had been worryingly imprecise, leading to confused results.

While 30 per cent had answered “no” to the question “did you get support from NHS or private midwives during your pregnancy/pregnancies?”, elsewhere in the survey 82 per cent said they had received antenatal care.

‘No data to support LGBT Foundation claims’

The LGBT Foundation used the 30 per cent claim to suggest that pregnant trans and non-binary people were “being put at risk” but the authors said there was no data to support the claim.

Article also in archive site

Trans maternity report backed by NHS ‘could have harmed women’

New study says ‘methodologically flawed’ research by LGBT Foundation made misleading claims and spurious recommendations

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/02/nhs-backed-trans-maternity-report-could-have-harmed-women/

Helleofabore · 04/09/2023 21:31

Sex Differences in Track and Field Elite Youth

Mira A. Atkinson, Jessica J.James, Meagan E.Quinn, Jonathon W. Senefeld andSandra K. Hunter

https://sportrxiv.org/index.php/server/preprint/view/324/version/419

RESULTS: Males ran faster than females at every age in the 100, 200, 400 and 800 m (P<0.001). When combining all running events, the sex difference (%) was 4.0 ± 1.7% between 7-12 years and increased to 6.3 ± 1.1% at 13 years, and 12.6 ± 1.8% at 18 years (P<0.001). Similarly, males jumped higher and further than females at every age (P<0.001). For long jump, the sex difference was 6.8 ± 2.8% between 7-12 years, increasing to 8.5 ± 1.7% at 13 years, and 22.7 ± 1.4% at 18 years (P<0.001). For high jump, the sex difference was 5.3 ± 5.2% between 7-12 years, increasing to 10.3 ± 2.4% at 14 years, and 18.4 ± 2.04% at 18 years (P<0.001). 

CONCLUSION:Prior to puberty in elite youth track and field athletes, there is a small but consistent sex difference, such that males run faster and jump higher and further than females. The sex difference in performance was event dependent and increased significantly from ~12 years for running and 13-14 years in jumping events.

Sex Differences in Track and Field Elite Youth | SportRxiv

https://sportrxiv.org/index.php/server/preprint/view/324/version/419

Helleofabore · 22/09/2023 16:05

Especially for those who continue to believe that the majority of the world's population are fully supportive of the demands from trans people. Rather than that many of the world's population is supportive of some of the demands of trans people but have limits. 50,000 Australians filled in this survey.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/all-the-questions-in-one-place-from-great-aussie-debate/news-story/ca8ab531382816ec97a4151b9088fab7

18. Should transgender athletes be allowed to compete in women’s sport?
No = 82.6%
It depends on the sport = 8.2%
I don’t know = 4.9%
Trans women are women = 4.2%

40. Do you share your gender pronouns in your email signature or in social media profiles?
No = 48.2%
No, but respect others’ pronouns = 28.2%
No, it is too confusing = 11.2%
Yes, but I don’t care what others do = 5.3%
Yes, and I appreciate when others do = 4.9%
Prefer not to say = 1.7%
My workplace doesn’t allow it = 0.5%

See the answers to all 50 questions

We asked 50,000 Australians 50 questions about all the topics dividing the nation, from the silly to the serious. It revealed their opinions on everything from work, politics and dating, to using your phone on the loo and wearing shorts in the office.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/all-the-questions-in-one-place-from-great-aussie-debate/news-story/ca8ab531382816ec97a4151b9088fab7

Thelnebriati · 23/09/2023 13:07

This from Canada;
''Poll reveals Canadian trans policies that are out of step with public opinion''
''Canadians favour equality for trans people, but generally don't believe in gender self-identification, survey shows''
35 per cent agreed...that “anyone who wishes can identify as a woman.” 

(34 per cent) sided with the notion that women are only those “who were born with female genitalia.”

18 per cent were comfortable with the idea of men legally becoming women, but only if they changed their genitalia through surgery.

(52 per cent) are not on board with a recent spate of Canadian legal reforms upholding the principle of gender self-ID

a clear majority of Canadians opposed to the adoption of “gender neutral” terminology [67 per cent]

66 per cent disagreed with the statement “everyone should put their pronouns in their social media profiles.”
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/angus-reid-poll-transgender-policies-canada

Poll reveals Canadian trans policies that are out of step with public opinion

Canadians seems to favour equality for trans people, but generally don't believe in gender self-identification, survey shows.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/angus-reid-poll-transgender-policies-canada#Echobox=1695415416

Bosky · 24/09/2023 01:59

National Centre for Social Research British social attitudes survey
21 Sept 2023

"Just 30% think someone should be able to have the sex on their birth certificate altered if they want, down from 53% in 2019."

natcen.ac.uk/publications/bsa-40-liberalisation-attitudes

Helleofabore · 26/09/2023 11:31

Two examples of trans 'spokespeople' saying that people using pronouns and changing identity documents does mean that society views them as women and that therefore they should absolutely be treated as women.

F Wallace

https://twitter.com/Isla_macy/status/1706382987682554144 at around 2 hr 5 mins

Ivy/McKinnon

https://news.sky.com/story/trans-cyclist-rachel-mckinnon-defends-her-right-to-race-in-womens-competitions-11838131

And here

https://twitter.com/Isla_macy/status/1706382987682554144

Helleofabore · 05/10/2023 11:30

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12591769/roanoke-college-virginia-transgender-swimmer.html


 A group of elite women swimmers at a Virginia university are demanding urgent action to protect their sport, after a transgender student joined their team, leaving the coaches and athletes 'demoralized', angry, and unsure how to cope.

The trans student informed staff at Roanoke College in September that she wished to swim on the women's team, after sitting out the previous season while transitioning. The year before, the trans swimmer had competed in the men's team.

The case bears strong echoes of that of Lia Thomas, who last year became the first transgender athlete to win an NCAA Division I national championship, and set off a firestorm of controversy.

Speaking exclusively to DailyMail.com, the three captains of the swim squad said they felt abandoned by their university, and let down by the NCAA, National Collegiate Athletic Association.

They described the stress of being told they had to confront the trans swimmer themselves, and make their case - only for the trans swimmer to tell them she felt suicidal and was desperate to be included.

Kate Pearson , Lily Mullens and Bailey Gallagher are very brave young women.

EXC: Virginia women's swim team tell of 'demoralizing' trans battle

Three members of the Roanoke College women's swim squad have told DailyMail.com of their anger at being forced to work out how to deal with a trans woman wanting to join their squad.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12591769/roanoke-college-virginia-transgender-swimmer.html

MavisMcMinty · 07/10/2023 12:11

Gosh!

5. Trans women are women. This is not up for debate – so don’t try to.

Yeah, gonna have a problem with No.5.

<takes deep breath, ploughs back into article>

MavisMcMinty · 07/10/2023 12:25

17. If you are called out for being offensive, do not argue. This is not a debate. Apologise. Take a moment to reflect. If necessary, leave or give the space over to those you have offended or upset.

18. Never try to argue with a trans person that something isn’t transphobic.

40. Do not tell us we “are playing the victim,” WE ARE THE FUCKING VICTIM.

46. Record transphobic incidents. (Caveat: This is only if your immediate assistance is not needed and you have checked you can use this footage by the person involved.) Share this with everyone you can. It may lead to prosecution or people in positions loosing their job. Nobody should still be allowed to be a CEO and use offensive slurs.

52. Don’t ask what gender dysphoria feels like because it’s a stupid question and there’s no way you can try to understand it.

55. Do not engage in question-based conversations with TERFs. You have nothing to learn from them.

60. Tell your trans friends and partners how great they look. Highlight the changes after hormones, surgery, or even just a good skin day.

63. Offer shelter, money, food etc. The basics of survival are hard for trans folk. If you have enough to spare, try to offer.

77. Sex work is a service. Again, this is not up for debate. Do not try to stop trans folk from advocating for and implementing their own safety measures. Do not hide your prejudice against sex workers with fake worry.

90. If somebody who is trans asks you to go to the bathroom with them, go. This can be a very unsafe space for us.

92. Trans-only groups are there for a reason. These are also not your spaces.

Gosh! What about our single-sex spaces?

Unfortunately a stupid ad was covering up the last half-dozen rules, but the above are my favourites.

LGBT in Britain - Trans Report

One in eight trans employees (12 per cent) have been physically attacked by a colleague or customer in the last year Half of trans people (51 per cent) have hidden their identity at work for fear of discrimination A quarter of trans people (25...

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/lgbt-britain-trans-report

Helleofabore · 07/11/2023 22:52

This is an interesting quote Ross Tucker has clipped from the CAS finding.

It says:

Because they are "biologically indistinguishable.. in all relevant respects". athletes with 5-ARD experience the same ergogenic effect from these physiological changes as males without DSD experience. The only material physical difference between 5-ARD athletes and male athletes without DSD is "the size and shape of their external genitals", which has no impact on athletic performance.

While no 5-ARD athlete has yet won a women's event by a margin of 10-12%, this fact has nothing to do with their condition. Rather, it reflects the fact that, "the particular [5-ARD] athletes we have seen thus far are not as good as the best males. Like many other (non-elite) males, they still beat the very best biological females, just by a smaller margin."


https://x.com/scienceofsport/status/1722006033491513584?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

His tweet says:

“It's interesting that this came up in the CAS hearing, too. World Athletics had kind of tap danced and skirted around it in the Chand case, but when Semenya played this card at CAS, World Athletics responded, and point 289 of the CAS decision captures the conclusion:”

Break it down for me?
Helleofabore · 25/11/2023 09:06

newsroom.co.nz/2023/11/03/race-relations-among-most-divisive-issues-in-election-poll/

A report from pollsters Talbot Mills, seeking to understand the degree to which New Zealand has become more politically polarised, shows people broadly agree on Covid-19 measures and gun laws but are divided over or opposed to policies for Māori and transgender people.

And

The least favoured policy was allowing transgender women to compete in women’s sport – just 14 percent supported it versus 60 percent who opposed.

and

Half of respondents opposed allowing transgender women (described as “biological males who identify as women” in the poll questions) to use women’s bathrooms, with 21 percent supporting the move.

Helleofabore · 01/12/2023 22:24

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0293868#sec018I shall add these resources into the one post to save space.

A short documentary from Nederlands about the Dutch protocol



The newly released peer reviewed reanalysis of the UK study. McPherson & Freedman both worked on the initial analysis of the patient clinical data.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2023.2281986

Psychological Outcomes of 12–15-Year-Olds with Gender Dysphoria Receiving Pubertal Suppression in the UK: Assessing Reliable and Clinically Significant Change

Susan McPherson & David E. P. Freedman

Published online: 29 Nov 2023

Abstract

The evidence base for psychological benefits of GnRHA for adolescents with gender dysphoria (GD) was deemed “low quality” by the UK National Institute of Health and Care Excellence. Limitations identified include inattention to clinical importance of findings. This secondary analysis of UK clinical study data uses Reliable and Clinically Significant Change approaches to address this gap. The original uncontrolled study collected data within a specialist GD service. Participants were 44 12–15-year-olds with GD. Puberty was suppressed using “triptorelin”; participants were followed-up for 36 months. Secondary analysis used data from parent-report Child Behavior Checklists and Youth Self-Report forms. Reliable change results: 15–34% of participants reliably deteriorated depending on the subscale, time point and parent versus child report. Clinically significant change results: 27–58% were in the borderline (subclinical) or clinical range at baseline (depending on subscale and parent or child report). Rates of clinically significant change ranged from 0 to 35%, decreasing over time toward zero on both self-report and parent-report. The approach offers an established complementary method to analyze individual level change and to examine who might benefit or otherwise from treatment in a field where research designs have been challenged by lack of control groups and low sample sizes.

The transgender protocol

There are currently almost 3,000 young people on the waiting list for gender care in the Netherlands. They are vulnerable adolescents who are frequently subj...

https://youtu.be/IXPWpDYoPKQ?feature=shared

Helleofabore · 14/01/2024 16:10

Fairplay for women have released a new report as follows. 

For years women and girls have been facing unfair, and sometimes unsafe, sport because of trans inclusion – which means male inclusion in women’s teams, events and changing rooms.

and 

The scale of the problem, and its effect on women and girls, has been concealed by the fear around this issue. A culture of intimidation and silencing has forced women to keep quiet or walk away. This is not inclusion, it’s female exclusion.

Fair Play For Women has heard personal reports from across 35 sports in the UK. From these, we have compiled around 50 personal testimonies representing 25 sports. We have protected their identities because they are worried about reprisals in their sport, or about the possible impact on relationships or on their jobs. Given that women have lost their jobs for expressing opinions about this, they are probably right to be cautious.

Our report gives them a voice. This, the first ever report on the impact of trans inclusion in the UK, shows a widespread problem, affecting many women and girls all over the country, at all levels, from juniors to masters and at all levels of competition and participation. Women and girls are being put at risk and their legitimate concerns disregarded. Their stories debunk the claims that this is a small problem, affecting only a few, and that it does no harm. They include big sports like football, athletics, swimming and cycling, and contact sports like judo, American football, ice hockey and roller-derby.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/new-report-how-trans-inclusion-in-sport-is-harming-women-and-girls/

trans inclusion in sport first report evidence of harm | Fair Play For Women

Trans inclusion in sport. A new report shows how trans inclusion is harming women and girls in Uk sport. It's the first ever to compile evidence

https://fairplayforwomen.com/new-report-how-trans-inclusion-in-sport-is-harming-women-and-girls/

Helleofabore · 17/01/2024 08:00

This week the WHO has become the latest to declare that there is a significant lack of evidence that the current treatment for children and adolescents around gender.

"the evidence base for children and adolescents is limited and variable regarding the longer-term outcomes of gender affirming care for children and adolescents"

tgdfaq16012024.pdf (who.int)

This update came less than a month after the WHO released what was supposedly their guidelines that were supposedly, at the time, very well evidenced and supposedly balanced.

https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/hq-hiv-hepatitis-and-stis-library/tgd_faq_16012024.pdf?sfvrsn=79eaf57f_1

Helleofabore · 07/02/2024 10:58

New study released on sex differences between male and female children under 11 years old.

Sex-based differences in track running distances of 100, 200, 400, 800, and 1500m in the 8 and under and 9–10-year-old age groups

Gregory A Brown, Brandon S Shaw, Ina Shaw

5th February 2024

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ejsc.12075

"In conclusion, although some have stated that sex-based differences in athletic performance do not arise until puberty, the present data indicate that in the 8 and under and 9–10-year-old age groups males run faster than females in distances of 100, 200, 400, 800, and 1500m. While some females in these age groups are faster than some males, the average male finalists are faster than the average female finalists, and the fastest males are faster than the fastest females. As running is a key component of many sports, these sex-based differences between prepubertal males and females should be considered when sport governing bodies and policy makers consider the issue of sex-based sporting categories"

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