Break it down for me?

[TortiousTortoise]

Hi all, I am fairly new to the discussion on the impact that transwomen are having on women generally and I want to more fully understand the issues (been trying to talk to my husband about it and am struggling to articulate it).

I feel so awkward writing about this as I definitely don't want to come across as sounding horrible about transpeople, I just want to understand.

Also there are a lot of acronyms being thrown about. Can anyone help me out?

[quote heresyandwitchcraft]On male-pattern narcissistic abusive behaviour, Lisa Muggeridge always provides sharp insights. This video is excellent, if you haven't seen it, talking about how certain trans activists are engaging in grooming of adults.
The context is the policy of Girl Guiding UK, which allows biological males and females to mix in sleeping quarters, showers, and changing rooms, without telling parents.

[/quote] This IS excellent!

Thank you!

Bump

Femwitch posted this article today and I think it is a good short explainer on why affirming only is problematic.

www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/now-i-m-hopeful-we-can-we-talk-about-teens-and-gender-20211031-p594q6.html

Now I’m hopeful we can talk about teens and gender

Dr Sandra Pertot

I found this very clear as an explanation

Although there is agreement across all clinicians working with gender-questioning adolescents that they typically report a history of mental health problems, increasingly some clinicians will consider the possibility that the client has come to the belief they are transgender as a way of providing an explanation for and resolving their pre-existing problems. In my experience, gender-affirming therapists strongly disagree, believing that anything other than immediately affirming the client’s expressed belief they are transgender will compound the harm. My view is that it is precisely because of the high rate of mental health problems in this group that a careful and comprehensive mental health assessment is required as a first step. Shepherding all of these vulnerable young people down the same pathway is poor clinical practice.

Two articles on the truth of " the epidemic of transwomen murders" The first is by a transwoman.
www.queermajority.com/currents/tdor-trans-death-and-trans-life

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/?fbclid=IwAR1NKvJRxUx7w5MjqvubPnGFypKgyuiELKYWotuDETPDlW5cO057vckRIho

You might find this useful. Looking at are trans women women by asking, is it true? is it useful? and is it kind?

medium.com/@ziggy_m/are-trans-women-women-1fd8a73fa50b

4w.pub/disturbing-footage-brazil/
Video clip of female student being beaten up after complaining about a male student who identifies as a women using the women's toilets.

A new video led by Prof Jo Phoenix, with Dr Emma Hilton and Jon Pike. OUGCRN Seminar : Sex, Gender, and Sport after Tokyo

As she points out the 69 kg male weightlifting champion at 164 cm can lift more weight and any female weightlifting champion. Even Tatiana Kashirina who is 108 kg an 177 cm tall. She goes through Hubbard's advantages.

An interesting seminar particularly for anyone who perhaps wants a summary of sex vs gender or a reminder.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20211124210812/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/24/transgender-prison-population-climbs-fifth-two-years-moj-figures/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20211124210812/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/24/transgender-prison-population-climbs-fifth-two-years-moj-figures/

Transgender prison population climbs by a fifth in two years, MoJ figures show
Figures come after the High Court ruled that it is lawful for transgender women, who were born men, to be housed in the female prison estate
By Izzy Lyons, CRIME CORRESPONDENT
24 November 2021

In a report seen by The Telegraph, 197 prisoners serving sentences in England and Wales identified as transgender in 2021, a 21 per cent jump from 163 in 2019.

In a separate category are offenders who hold a gender recognition certificate (GRC), a document that legally recognises their change in gender. This year’s Offender Equalities Annual Report is expected to confirm for the first time that the number of prisoners who hold a GRC is 23, although it is understood that the figure is still being investigated.

Of the 197 prisoners who are living as the opposite gender in prison, but not legally recognised as such, the overwhelming majority were men identifying as women, the figures show.

“When asked about the gender with which the prisoner identified from the following categories, 146 identified as female, 39 as male, 11 as non-binary and one did not provide a response," the Offender Equalities Annual Report states.

As well as this article in the Washington Post from Dr Laura Edwards-Leeper & Erica Anderson, L E-L has tweeted about social transitioning done by schools.

“ I think this is a bad idea in 99% of circumstances. Professionals who know what they’re doing should be involved; and by not including parents, it ultimately makes the situation worse for the kid (unless the parent is abusive- that’s the 1%). I’ve actually never seen this go well”

www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/11/24/trans-kids-therapy-psychologist/

mobile.twitter.com/drlaurael/status/1462968319636480004

The Washington Post article points out that many clinicians are not following the WPATH guidelines of comprehensive assessment and rmental health support.

The standards of care recommend mental health support and comprehensive assessment for all dysphoric youth before starting medical interventions. The process, done conscientiously, can take a few months (when a young person’s gender has been persistent and there are no simultaneous mental health issues) or up to several years in complicated cases. But few are trained to do it properly, and some clinicians don’t even believe in it, contending without evidence that treating dysphoria medically will resolve other mental health issues. Providers and their behavior haven’t been closely studied, but we find evidence every single day, from our peers across the country and concerned parents who reach out, that the field has moved from a more nuanced, individualized and developmentally appropriate assessment process to one where every problem looks like a medical one that can be solved quickly with medication or, ultimately, surgery. As a result, we may be harming some of the young people we strive to support — people who may not be prepared for the gender transitions they are being rushed into.

open.spotify.com/show/3g71AuFYy6FnYHEI1GO9A0

An excellent podcast with Ross Tucker and Dr Emma Hilton about women’s sports.

It is an hour and a half but gives lots of background, including debunking the logic of the ‘Phelps’ argument.

Jean Hatchet
"Don't "GC" me. I'm a feminist".
(extract)
"For feminists calling yourself a “gender critical feminist” is exactly the same as saying “feminist feminist.” It’s just saying it twice and that’s pointless. Being critical of gender and the accompanying gender stereotyping is just a small part of analysing your position as a woman in a world where women are oppressed by men. Being “gender critical” but not really bothering about other aspects of female oppression doesn’t make you a feminist and no one says it has to. However, neither should “GC” people be assuming that all feminists are happy to be under their brand new, shiny branding simply because they also critique gender. (continues)

The key issue is not that there is a “GC” movement. It's great to see so many people beginning to wake up to the threat from trans activism. The problem is that the people in that "movement" keep assuming that feminist women are happy to be part of it. For many of us we aren’t. You can’t include us in a group we didn’t ask or want to join. We can’t be responsible for the errors made by those within a movement that we aren’t in. We certainly can’t be responsible for the things that men say or do whether a self-declared “ally”, or not. We also really don’t need men policing us, dictating to us, or using women to do the work that gives them a platform. That smells a lot like Patriarchy to me. Feminist women are working very hard and have been for many years. When some GC people, including women, expect them to help with projects on the single issue they have in common, often without thanks, then those women should not be surprised when feminist women become a bit pissed off and say no.

This is brewing. We can’t all just “play nice”. This stuff needs talking about. Boundaries may need establishing. Some of us aren’t GC. We are feminists. Lots of feminists are calling themselves “GC” when they don’t need to. It's a superfluous definition.

Some men need to step to one side as they are dividing women.

We really need to discuss race and class and how it fits in all this. We do need to discuss political difference and why it may prevent automatic allegiance with some groups. We aren’t one big happy hive mind and we don’t want to keep pretending we are. We need to start the conversation to avoid the war. Yes we need to work together. Just sometimes separately and sometimes differently. " (continues)
www.jeanhatchet.com/post/don-t-gc-me-i-m-a-feminist

Posting just to sound this out. I am aware of a situation I cannot speak out at work about because of the consequences and anyway no one would agree, no one to report it to. I can't discuss with anyone because I would be breaching confidentiality. There isn't an answer is there, other than try to forget it.

Notspeakingup That sounds like an incredibly difficult situation to be in. If you work within an organisation/profession that has a whistle blower policy there may possibly be an avenue there if the issue warrants.

TT Exulansic YouTube

Men and Women are Different Species (read the description)
4 Dec 2021 •

"There is a video elaborating on the etymology of species that is currently misplaced to time. I am in fact, aware that female and male humans are of the same biological species. I'm living proof. The word species comes from the same root as spectacle and refers to the look of us. Women are women and look like women and are we are in fact women because of that look and the look is bone deep and cannot be acquired by those without it. Men are those that look like men down to their development and DNA. It is observable at every level of analysis that men are men and women are women and the twain only meets in reproduction.

Species also is a synonym for kind or variety. Women are women, and are a kind of human as contrasted with men, a different species of the larger species we both belong to, human. So much confusion comes from thinking that because we're two peas in a pod, we're therefore the same. In fact, we're cats and dogs, which still have to go to school together at Mammalia Elementary."

Twitter: twitter.com/exulansic

It is really worth following Exulansic on Youtube, Twitter and/or TikTok.

Youtube about:
(extract)
"If you're a woman who was just called TERF for the first time for suggesting women exist, and you're wondering why, given that the true thing you said shouldn't be controversial, this is the channel for you. Historically grounded and scientifically skeptical Transwoman Exclusionary Radical Feminism (formerly known as "feminism")"

There is an excellent resource thread from 2018/19 by heresyandwitchcraft providing links to useful threads and other resources by subject area:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3335962-Frequently-Asked-Questions-FAQs-I-have-noticed-here

Polling shows being supportive of transgender self-expression is not the same as supporting self-declaration for legal gender recognition

53% of people responded that they believe that doctor's approval should be needed for changing 'gender'. 20% did not know.

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2021/12/14/polling-shows-being-supportive-of-transgender-self-expression-is-not-the-same-as-supporting-self-declaration-for-legal-gender-recognition/

There has been a small poll conducted on behalf of Binary organisation in Australia. The daily telegraph reported on it. Here is the link but it is subscribers only.

www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/transgender-sport-debate-new-polling-shows-support-for-womens-sport/news-story/24cdbb922dc3068cec993a1e06ffe023

There is an archive md copy (plug in the link)

The outcome was:

The nationally weighted poll found 67 per cent of Australians do not believe biological males and females should be able to compete together in sport.

Now... that question is quite misleading as it has been written in the paper. Because OF COURSE some sports and even events within some sports are fine for males and females to compete together. Touch rugby teams, doubles tennis etc. I would like to see the original survey question.

The survey of 1500 Australians also found 75 per cent of Australians believe there should be legal protections for girls sport, including support from Labor voters at 75 per cent and even Green voters at 55.

This was also interesting.

Katherine Deves brings up a very interesting point.

'Ninety six per cent of female business leaders and CEOs in the USA have a competitive sports background, so every time a male exploits the opportunity to take up space in female competitions and teams, he is depriving those young women of the opportunity to excel in life.”

Parking this link here for the new statistics site.

www.statsforgender.org/

Another yougov poll.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/12/22/cancel-culture-what-views-are-britons-afraid-expre

Here are some interesting highlights:

A majority of Britons (57%) say they have, at least sometimes, found themselves stopping themselves from expressing their political or social views for fear of judgement or negative responses from others.

Women are also more likely to have held their tongue than men (62% vs 52%).

29% of those who disagree with the statement “a transgender woman is a woman” feel they have to frequently keep bottled up.

Only 10% of respondents agree with the mantra.

This contains a very interesting chart at the bottom that shows ‘conservatives more inclined to have concerns about free speech and labour being more concerned about protecting peoples feelings and sensitivities.

Here is a new study on a small sample of trans patients and the standard of care.

www.mdpi.com/2227-9032/10/1/121/htm

A few things stand out.

1. the number of patients with underlying mental health issues. And how they are being completely let down by affirming only treatment.

-The number of visits before receiving hormones was 2.7 appointments.

-67 patients average age 27.8 years -range was 12- 54
-42 females, 22 males, four NB (3 f / 1 m)
-Female mean age is 18 years, male 23 years.
-Out of the 67, only 9 (13%) had NO mental health diagnosis. 10 (15%) had diagnosed ASD, 4 with ADHD (6%), 3 (4%) with OCD, 1 with Bipolar, 7 (10%) with a Personality Disorder. 13 (19%) had documented childhood abuse, neglect or violence.

2. the rate of detransition amongst those who had received at least hormones was 9.8%. This is in line with the European study which showed a long term detransition rate of medicalised transitioners of males 8.8% and females 8.3%.

From this study

Nine patients had stopped hormone therapy; one related to practice policy because they had not attended any GIC follow-up (the patient has restarted since the audit). Thus, eight patients had stopped hormones voluntarily (20% stopping rate; six trans men, two trans women).

This is the other study with the figures 8.8% & 8.3%:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5580378/

135 natal males (119 living in the female role, 12 in the male role, 4 did not report their current gender role) and 66 natal females (60 living in the male role, 5 in the female role, 1 did not report a current gender role)

So... 8.88% of males and 8.33% of the females (this does not include those who did not answer the question which if the answer was to detransition would make these figures higher). And in Figure 3. 22.2% of those who socially transitioned, detransitioned.

An journal article about the use of dehumanising language around pregnant women and mothers.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2022.818856/full?fbclid=IwAR1GmMyg9yC58i3SargXSSpsw1NgaVoD6raB8cz40YuEgx9VxFTr5A4m4OQ

Effective communication about pregnancy, birth, lactation, breastfeeding and newborn care: the importance of sexed language

Karleen D. Gribble1*, Melissa C. Bartick2, 3, Susan Bewley4, Roger Mathisen5, Shawn Walker6, Jennifer Gamble7, 8, Nils J. Bergmann9, Arun Gupta10, Jennifer J. Hocking11 and Hannah G. Dahlen1

1School of Nursing and Midwifery, Western Sydney University, Australia
2Mount Auburn Hospital, United States
3Department of Medicine, Harvard Medical School, United States
4Department of Women and Children's Health, King's College London, United Kingdom
5Alive & Thrive Southeast Asia, FHI Solutions, Vietnam
6Women's and Children's Services, St Thomas' Hospital, United Kingdom
7Centre for Health Care Research, Coventry University, United Kingdom
8School of Nursing and Midwifery, Griffith University, Australia
9Department of Women's and Children's Health, Karolinska Institute (KI), Sweden
10Breastfeeding Promotion Network of India (BPNI), India
11School of Nursing, Midwifery and Paramedicine, Australian Catholic University, Australia

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60141382

'A major UK human rights body has urged the Scottish government to pause its reforms to the gender recognition process for further consideration.

Ministers want to change the system to make it easier for people to change their legally recognised gender, and a bill is expected at Holyrood this year.

But the Equality and Human Rights Commission has told them that "more detailed consideration is needed".'

You definitely need a drink.

In my case, when I read up on this, I don't sleep as well at night.

Being a live and let live type I thought this new kids fad was something I didn't understand so kept my nose out.

When I had my 'peak trans' moment and truly 'got it', like so many women on here have, I cried on and off for a week, it was truly like falling down a rabbit hole.

I think it's been a shock when you haven't been aware of things insiduously creeping up.

This is an older study but still worth reading.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5580378/

This is a small study but states:

135 natal males (119 living in the female role, 12 in the male role, 4 did not report their current gender role) and 66 natal females (60 living in the male role, 5 in the female role, 1 did not report a current gender role)

8.88% of males and 8.33% of the females (this does not include those who did not answer the question which if the answer was to detransition would make these figures higher). And in Figure 3. 22.2% of those who socially transitioned, detransitioned.

For all those who think it is absolutely appropriate for males to take roles as ‘women’s officers’, I think this is a great lesson.

4w.pub/detransition-after-harming-lesbians/

A woman was in a position, was removed for saying sex is important and replaced with a transitioned male, who took over the role and had since detransitioned.

Something a female simply cannot do is to transition out of their female body and every female has needs that are different than a male, transitioned or not, cannot fully appreciate. It is NEVER ok for a male to take a women’s officer role because they can only theoretically know what is important or not. And invariably makes the role about their needs in any case.