ITV Transformation Street

[RedToothBrush]

On tv tonight.

But here's an article to give you a taste of what its going to be like:www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/transformation-street-itv-transgender-documentary-a3737876.html

And she’s obviously never seen billy Elliot

Dear langcleg only 12 ...... ( I am only joking , please don’t read anything into that remark)

48 - well, 7 murders is 7 too many and 12 murderers is 12 too many. I think everyone here would agree on that!

But, I ask again, which openly transexual women was murdered in your town only last year and in a most brutal way only streets away from you? Could you provide a news report?

I do think that some tran kids are very self centred I watched the programmes on a girl named Jazz , her siblings were side lined a lot to make her journey possible and she never thanked them for that least ways it was never televised

No I can not as I rarely buy newspapers and it was told to me by a friend who had no reason to lie about it,.... as far as I know

All death by another’s hand is inexcusable and abhorrent

Well, it's good news then, harv. There weren't any transwomen murdered in the UK in 2017, so you don't need to worry too much about your safety.

If that’s right then I am pleased but safety is always a present thought

I'm sure it is harv, but statistically a man who transitions is less likely to be murdered someone who doesn't.

I hope you find that reassuring.

Here’s the research done into this. As you can see this is from a trans pressure group so they have no reason to lie.

There is obviously a horrendous situation in Latin America especially for trans women involved in prostitution. It’s awful.

In the uk however you’ll be reassured to see the situation is much better.

transrespect.org/en/map/trans-murder-monitoring/?submap=tmm_relative_numbers

Women are not going to pretend that female specific biology doesn't exist to avoid hurting trans women's feelings. That, the transitioning of children, and dicks in single sex spaces where nudity can be expected are the hills that I will die on, and I'm not alone in that.

Seriously, only a man could frame "women are not going to pretend that female biology doesn't exist" as "bullying". Male socialization is a hell of a drug.

Sorry I agree with both of these.

I assume I was one of the 'pleasant friendly people' you were talking to 'openly and frankly' but I have to agree with the others here. Its one thing being friendly and nice, its another thing completely to pretend female biology and completely female experiences are not real. I am not willing to suspend reality in that way. Women being 'nice' is whats lead to the situation we have today, where the word 'woman' is being colonized and female only spaces/services are under attack from all angles. I have no need to not be nice when speaking one on one with people..I try to be nice to everyone as a rule (maybe thats my female socialization showing) and I realize this fight is not with individual transwomen. But when women are accused of bullying for pointing out that men pause is a female experience, not a male one...well..thats where my 'nice-ness' runs out I am afraid. Give an inch, a mile is taken it seems. Thats not about you specifically, but the entire movement.

Oh wow, didn't realize that the thread had moved on as much. I posted before reading the full thread so apologies if this has already been put to bed

Don't apologise, it's a great post.

48 - sorry to have pressed you on this but, as Datun and others have said, when trans people appear in feminist spaces purporting to be reasonable and wanting dialogue, a predictable pattern emerges. One part of that pattern is to make appeals to emotion/sympathy based on unsupported assertions. This pattern is so predictable that it's now my opinion that the people making those unsupported assertions know that they are not true. In other words, sorry to say it, they lie.

I realise that the transsexual population - as Italian on this thread has tried to point out - is both very vulnerable and also associated with many mental health comorbidities. I have huge sympathy for this.

But a lie is a lie. Even when the motive is validation or sympathy on the part of a vulnerable person.

This feminist board is filled with women who are brighter and more articulate than me. They've been fighting this battle for their rights and identities longer than me. You will not win them over by saying things that you know aren't true and they know aren't true.

But you know what? Honesty would get you a great deal further. Nobody here is cruel or heartless. But they do deserve respect and, at the very least, the truth.

men pause is a female experience

Vicxy - your typo made me snort

Don't you start!

The sense of security leads the transwomen into saying something controversial. Always. It's never far from the surface. You just have to wait.

I have to disagree with this slightly Datun. I wouldn't say its always at all. We have a member here (who I unfortunately have not seen posting for a while) who is a transwoman and never ever goes down this route. You mentioned her in your earlier post. Curry. Now she is a breath of fresh air amongst all of this madness. She accepts that she is male and does seem a genuine ally to women. Not one saying she is an ally to get cookies or validation, a genuine ally.

The rest of the post is of course true. I feel a bit nitpicky pointing this out as I know you used always as shorthand really.

Ahaha a fitting typo for once

The rest of the post is of course true. I feel a bit nitpicky pointing this out as I know you used always as shorthand really.

Yes it's true, that Curry gets it.

In terms of the erosion of women's rights.

I was going to write a longer post, but I deleted it, because even to my ears it sounds a little hair splitting.

So I'll leave it at that. Yes people like Curry understand. And I wish there were more of them.

Yes, @Datun "It is a very specific characteristic for (some) transwomen to refer to themselves as girls. Over and over. " That was very present in the tv programme although they did say trans girls (a group of trans women aged 40-50 I guess).

@48harv the fact you have stayed to listen is good.

Maybe we need a new thread to explore issues in a balanced way.

@SophoclesTheFox I totally get where you are and how you got there. People like me have a lot to learn.

Maybe I am too much kid gloves.

I am looking for the points of contact. Biology is not a point of contact. I'm not fooled, honestly.

But I am looking for connection and understanding.

I do take a lot from what you and others say.

I am not a passive decided person I am a sponge looking to learn! But I am so very much concerned for others feelings. it's not a blessing, a bit of a curse!

But in terms of safety and protection I am totally with the needs for women not to be too nice. To me it is so much easier to be nice in a forum. It's a different arena. Hope that makes sense.

@LangCleg DoD I mention mental health conditions? I don't think so. Someone else mentioned autistic conditions. Actually I think there are a plethora if reasons people now identify as trans. It's hugely complex. I don't see it as one thing. Trouble is issues now are causing issues for woman and trans women.

And I don't think it is at all fair to get 48 to identify where she is from. She may not even be in the UK!

What's all this getting cookies? Is it virtue signalling by another name!

Yes.

Thanks (I am diabetic!)

Dear Italiangreyhound, when I joined this forum it was never my intention to degrade, subjugate, or belittle anybody,
I felt I could help in the understanding of people like me and what we are about, instead I seem to have made it worse, I am a genuine person who tries to go through life without making ripples, I admit I did think twice before joining, I do respect all women, except perhaps Rose West. And others like her. Maybe my literary skill are not up to the job, you came across as very nice and it’s been a pleasure to chat with you. I will stay on the site but less visibly thank you.

@48harv there are lots of bits on this site. if you want to go on talking why not start a thread on another place.