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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Labour party invents new bollocks made-up non-existent definition for woman

800 replies

pisacake · 11/01/2018 14:29

labour.org.uk/members/get-involved/national-youth-elections-2018/

Sixteen uses of the word 'self-defining woman'. Zero uses of 'female', 'biology', or plain 'woman'.

'Woman' is now literally meaningless. A woman can be a bog-standard heterosexual teenage male (Lily Madigan), if he says so.

And obviously with half the places reserved for 'self-defining women' (not 'women', 'self-defining women'), then there's not really any reason why men wouldn't define themselves a women, is there?

If misogynistic shits like Lily Madigan can 'self-define as a woman', well ALL men are women, aren't they?

The whole bloody human race is 'self-defined women'.

Stupid Labour.

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PocketCoffeeEspresso · 15/01/2018 11:01

I think my biggest problem with the phrase is that I'm not discriminated against because I 'self-define' as a women, I'm discriminiated against because I am externally defined as a woman.

If I go to an interview, the interviewer doesn't write down my salary, ask how I define, and knock off 20% if I say 'woman' - they look at me, decide I'm a woman for themselves, and offer me the lower salary.

I could pin every part of my life on my womanhood, or I could come up 100% masculine on online quizzes, but it wouldn't matter either way - that interviewer would take one look at my 5' tall, stone-age fertility doll physique, and their head would go 'woman'.

Self-definition doesn't matter at all. It's how society defines you that results in the oppression.

Datun · 15/01/2018 11:13

I think my biggest problem with the phrase is that I'm not discriminated against because I 'self-define' as a women, I'm discriminiated against because I am externally defined as a woman.

Exactly. So insulting to be told that you are treated a certain way because of the way you think and how you define yourself.

Women everywhere, if only you define yourself differently you would never have been oppressed, you fools.

Payfrozen · 15/01/2018 11:14

Have been thinking about my younger colleagues. They are well educated public sector professionals who are very values driven and empathic in their work and often advocate for very vulnerable people. I think saying "No. This is against the interests of me/women as a class," is really uncomfortable.

I think they have grown up with this weird double speak. My DD said at 16 that she just didn't get sexism as she had never experienced it. At 17 she got a job in a bar and she now works in a high tech setting. She gets it now. Both the idea of sexism and the harrassment.

The Big Brother thing has been helpful. I was trying to explain to my DDs why i reject the definition "cis" woman. DD3 said it wasn't offensive as it simply meant your biological sex matched your gender. DD1 said "But mum's saying gender is a social construct ."

We once watched a programme about the first female police officers who were allowed to carry smelling salts and a whistle. It was ages before the first female armed officer. My DDs were so shocked. I wasn't. It's like there is no cultural memory. Like sexism and misogyny didn't and doesn't exist. Big Brother indeed.

LangCleg · 15/01/2018 11:14

If I go to an interview, the interviewer doesn't write down my salary, ask how I define, and knock off 20% if I say 'woman' - they look at me, decide I'm a woman for themselves, and offer me the lower salary.

Yep. Or they look at you, realise you're of childbearing age and don't give you the job at all because you might want maternity pay and leave.

BarrackerBarmer · 15/01/2018 11:52

..And hurry to employ the right kind of woman that both ticks the diversity box and will never need maternity leave on account of having a penis.

LangCleg · 15/01/2018 12:10

Yes!

"We employ women (but they all have penises)!"

"We employ trans people (and they all have penises too)!"

PocketCoffeeEspresso · 15/01/2018 12:28

..And hurry to employ the right kind of woman that both ticks the diversity box and will never need maternity leave on account of having a penis.

I work in IT, so this isn't actually as far-fetched as it sounds :(

woman11017 · 15/01/2018 12:53

Saw this on twitter:
LadyPerson‏ @gc_radfem
❗️Sisters who are contributing to the Labour shortlist’s fundraiser and are Party members. There’s a Facebook group that intends to send your names to the Party to try to get you thrown out. You may want to donate anonymously (option on one of the final screens after donating).

woman11017 · 15/01/2018 12:59

there is no cultural memory
It's funny, but I feel that with the rise of the internet, the cultural memory which did exist between generations of women, and through the teaching of the odd bit of feminist history has all but vanished.

PillowCate · 15/01/2018 13:34

woman11017 identity politics trump the democratic process. Hmm

Mner · 15/01/2018 13:40

I complained to my MP. Her assistant replied and said there wasn't much they could at the moment but they sent me a link to this document here <a class="break-all" href="//(fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Transgender-Law-Concerns.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">notes from the david davis meeting). The assistant had attended the meeting as well. I think they are fairly on board but not publicly at the moment.

321namechange · 15/01/2018 14:19

Mner

Link doesn't work?

Popchyk · 15/01/2018 14:29

Interesting that Eddie Izzard came fourth in that ballot and therefore was not elected. Presumably because Momentum did not back him.

Be interesting to see if there is any backlash from trans activists on that.

Mner · 15/01/2018 15:01

Try again: [https://fairplayforwomen.com/gra-reform/transgender-law-concerns-gra]

woman11017 · 15/01/2018 17:36

identity politics trump the democratic process.
But can't trump the law. (Hopefully!)
Write up of the coming case:
gendertrender.wordpress.com/2018/01/14/women-to-sue-uk-labour-over-refusal-to-honor-protected-legal-category-of-sex/

juliascurr · 15/01/2018 18:41

Ann Ruzylo resigned as Bexhill Women's Officer after accusations of transphobia. i don't know if Lily Madigan was involved in that campaign. Lily Madigan was elected Women's Officer as part of the Left Slate including Momentum supporting Jeremy Corbyn in Rochester and Strood CLP. The Bexhill situation was not mentioned. Lily now aims to become the first trans MP and has applied to the Jo Cox programme.

juliascurr · 15/01/2018 18:48

we need a proper campaign to explain why we can't support te current Labour position; drfting away one by one will make no impact

Datun · 15/01/2018 18:52

LM was directly involved in the campaign against Anne.

As far as I know, LM has been refused the Jo Cox programme.

But there is a rumour that it's gone to another TIM.

321namechange · 15/01/2018 19:29

Mner thanks second one works. Interesting and accessible reading.

321namechange · 15/01/2018 19:29

Mner thanks second one works. Interesting and accessible reading.

EamonnWright · 15/01/2018 19:58

*LM was directly involved in the campaign against Anne.

As far as I know, LM has been refused the Jo Cox programme.

But there is a rumour that it's gone to another TIM*

Got a high then a low reading that! Hopefully the rumour is wrong.

Original poster
pisacake · 15/01/2018 20:08

there is at least one TIM on the Jo Cox programme, Sophie Cook

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