Labour party invents new bollocks made-up non-existent definition for woman

[pisacake]

labour.org.uk/members/get-involved/national-youth-elections-2018/

Sixteen uses of the word 'self-defining woman'. Zero uses of 'female', 'biology', or plain 'woman'.

'Woman' is now literally meaningless. A woman can be a bog-standard heterosexual teenage male (Lily Madigan), if he says so.

And obviously with half the places reserved for 'self-defining women' (not 'women', 'self-defining women'), then there's not really any reason why men wouldn't define themselves a women, is there?

If misogynistic shits like Lily Madigan can 'self-define as a woman', well ALL men are women, aren't they?

The whole bloody human race is 'self-defined women'.

Stupid Labour.

They’re thinking of the genuine transwomen, and not taking into account the possibility (because the question appears to be a leading one) of what someone on here recently called ‘the predators and the pisstakers’. I’d have been similarly uncynical at that age.

What is a "genuine transwoman" what's the definition, how are they identified?

Was chatting with a young person earlier: breitbart and reddit has been grooming this generation with the 'feminazi' narrative for well over 5 years now.

Hence the liberal use of the 't' word by some 'labour' activists. And ill informed responses. The Socialist Workers party of course has previous on banning feminist history.

The 'n' word was pretty common place in racist america until it wasn't and then was again.

Thegirlinthefireplace - They are intelligent, but although they question other things, I don't think they would even dream of questioning the left wing trans movement. It's almost as if they have blocked their minds off from questioning it as they feel it is the same as old homophobic views...

In fact, where do young women go for feminist history education?

Young women have come up through New Labour's education system where children were explicitly told what to think via educational guidance issued to schools, and taught to be horrified by anyone saying anything off message. Critical thought not encouraged or even allowed. I was teaching at the time and was deeply uncomfortable with some of the political opinion I was required to teach as fact.

As discussed before on these threads, awareness of biological disadvantage doesn't really start to sink into you as a woman until you start to experience the work place, child birth, parenting, divorce and child maintenance and the many other things your vagina means are going to be more difficult for you. But young women are not unaware of the disadvantage even if they don't fully realise the words and have the framework to think about it: why else are huge waves of them in deep distress and trying to identify out of having to be female?

raisins

Like other young women, they think they know better than old women.

Wait till they've been through pregnancy, childbirth, rape, discrimination, glass ceiling and men who expect them to do all the housework.

Then it will start dawning on them, that maybe the old bats had a point.

And the wheel will have to be re-invented for the next generation, just as it is every generation because men are so good at dividing and ruling, that each generation of women grow up unaware of the lessons of their foremothers and have to relearn them in their turn.

And meanwhile, men will continue to take the lion's share of power and resources.

Yay for all those intelligent young women eh.

Sorry but Intelligence IS questioning and analysing, it's the very crux of intelligence. What you probably mean is they get good grades at school/uni.

Apologies though as I'm derailing, I've spent too long on Twitter today seeing the disastrous results of this countries inability to teach young people critical thinking.

Sorry, x posted

If Crome's figures are from a reputable source, one thing jumps out at me - young men aren't drinking the kool-aid. (Which would figure - most men know what the worst among their number are like, and are very easily able to believe in the existence of predators and piss-takers).

The British Social Attitudes Survey is quite a reputable source, I think. The entire reports are available online.

Elendon, the source is on the image. The British Attitudes Survey is the annual survey of attitudes in Britain.

Chapter giving overview:
bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/39147/bsa34_moral_issues_final.pdf

Data can be explored at:
www.britsocat.com/Home

Original dataset:
<a class="break-all" href="http://nesstar.ukdataservice.ac.uk/webview/index.jsp?v=2&mode=documentation&submode=abstract&study=nesstar.ukdataservice.ac.uk:80/obj/fStudy/8252&top=yes" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">nesstar.ukdataservice.ac.uk/webview/index.jsp?v=2&mode=documentation&submode=abstract&study=nesstar.ukdataservice.ac.uk:80/obj/fStudy/8252&top=yes

I would bet that upon answering that, most people had 'transitioned transexual women' in mind, not this new breed of entitled 'transgender with female penis' types.

I also would think that if asked again now, the results would be much lower. Now that more information about quite what is being requested has came to light and made more people think a little critcally beyond 'transwomen are women!!1'

Infact don't recent yougov polls show that its actually a minority of people (I am thinking it was about 30%?) who agree with this whole matter of remvoing single sex spaces and such.

What is a "genuine transwoman"...?

One who isn’t a standard issue abuser/predator pretending to be a transwoman in order to violate women’s boundaries.

One who isn’t an AGP.

One who isn’t pretending to be a transwoman as a pisstake/niche form of trolling.

There’s no objective way to tell, of course.

I also think that a lot of young women at university have trans friends and so it is difficult for them to openly have views that are not thought of as politically correct.

I know that I find it difficult to voice my views in real life as my friend's DD is transitioning to male, and so I have to be openly supportive of her, while secretly being quite upset about it.

The wording of this particular question"a man who has gone through all or part of a process to become a woman"implies someone like Paris Lees rather than Lily Madigan.

However, earlier questions in the survey had defined TG much more broadly, in line with 2010 Equality Act.

There's no objective way to tell because you've provided no objective definition. No one ever has (that I am aware of).

Closest we've had is GRC and that's become pretty much irrelevant despite the GRA changes not even happening.

I suspect young men won't ever be drinking the kool aid as to do so implies they'd be happy to have sex with an intact transwomen.

My DN is at uni, Home Ed so doesn't buy into the trans cult. DN has a Bi friend who reported the Bi and Lesbian women at their Uni, avoid trans women due to cotton ceiling issues. Most students just want to get on with their studies and have a fun time. It's apparently a selection of the unnatural hair colour students (Nothing wrong with that, just an observation I am reporting) and control freaks that push this type of thing there.

I have been taken aback by some of the younger women at work. I'm 50 and was actually told that education was wasted on a girl when i was a child. I wonder if not being told that but being told "you can be whatever you like" makes you not see or question attirudes that are more hidden?

Eg

Pregnant colleague says unquestioningly "I won't be offered the job because I'm pregnant." She was but didn't have a sense of rights and just seemed defeated.

Lesbian colleague really struggled with my fears that my non stereotypical dc might go down transgender path rather than being a happy creative gay person. What are you most worried about? she asked. "That their perfect body will be mutilated due to some shit ideas about gender stereotypes."

I say, "What about women's sport?" They say well sport has always been unfair because some people are born with longer legs.

They think I'm a dinosaur.

As discussed before on these threads, awareness of biological disadvantage doesn't really start to sink into you as a woman until you start to experience the work place, child birth, parenting, divorce and child maintenance and the many other things your vagina means are going to be more difficult for you.

This is so true.

Same here @payfrozen. I work in an environment where I cannot easily speak out about this for fear of being branded transphobic - the vast, painful irony being that my job also depends on an intimate and detailed understanding of female biology and female oppression!

I have had to 'agree to disagree' with several younger colleagues on this subject. They think I am a vile bigot and have called me a 'vagina fetishist', amongst other delightful names. Again, with horrible irony, the person who has been most vocal in their incomprehension of my stance is a lesbian. She says she sees no issue with the idea of the 'cotton ceiling' and doesn't understand why we can't all just get along in a lovely big melting pot of non-binary self-expression. She thinks this is all about not wanting to let transwomen 'into the woman club'.

Anther is a gay man who takes great delight in calling me 'cis' even though I have repeatedly told him that I find it an offensive term.

These are all highly intelligent, very well educated, supposedly critical thinkers, who would all definitely describe themselves as feminists. They spend much of their time centering 'natal' women in their day-to-day work. But they seem to have a huge blind spot when it comes to this - fear of appearing transphobic is the only thing I can put it down to. I love them to bits and respect them but it makes me so sad.

explodingkittens I feel ya. My DH is the most wonderful, intelligent man. We are equals in every way and we have young DDs. He is progressive and a feminist.

We have had to stop discussing the TRA and transwomen full stop. I don't understand how he can't see my concerns and I am not being disingenuous when I tell him I do not get his POV at all.

I complained to our local NHS trust as they brought in a new policy to allow men to stay overnight on postnatal wards. He agreed with and supported me - actively supported me! - proof read my letter and came home early from work so I could have a lengthy discussion with the supervisor of midwives about my concerns without DC to care for.

The basis of my complaint were that men on the wards -

Are potentially triggering to rape and SA survivors
Place pressure on already scarce resources eg loos
Women are vulnerable after birth and need a safe space to recover
Establishing bfing
Cultural issues
NAMALT but many men are not lovely supportive partners
Women need space to be able to cry for help to escape DV situations. Abusive men will want to stay overnight to retain control
It is not necessary - the wants of a man to be with his newborn does not trump the rights of a woman to be safe

He says he doesn't see the parallels with TRAs and women's spaces. He is choosing not to imo.

Anyone seen this?

MtFs are being offered breast screenings as they are higher risk due to taking female hormones, but FtMs are not.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/14/women-identify-men-not-offered-routine-nhs-breast-cancer-screening/