First openly transgender woman in British Vogue Celebrating 100 years since women have been given the vote

[speakout]

"Look how far we have come" says Paris Lees in a feature celebrating 100 years since women have had the right to vote in the UK.

Em except - your sex have always had the right to vote.

Or am I missing something?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42572561

DH demonstrates the trouble well I think. Despite agreeing that India is not a woman any more than a legless cat is a slug, he will not say aloud that he agrees with Katie Hopkins. Even though I am the only person here! 🙄
That's how 'sold' people are on the idea of her as the ultimate bad guy. Which I'm not disagreeing with, but the idea that someone won't admit - even alone to their partner - that they agree demonstrates how deplorable it is seen to be.

I agree with Katie Hopkins on this particular subject (and a very small handful of other subjects) but I don't believe our reasons for agreeing are the same.

Stella Creasy is saying on twitter she's being egalitarian re support for Trans when she's being called out on this. Yet another convenient 'get out' clause of discussing women's rights impacted by the trans agenda by side stepping the key conflict areas. She's not claiming to support trans as a feminist or because TIMs are women but as an egalitarian. I think she knows exactly what women are saying & is being a politician in her response (ignores the point raised, answers a different question, swivels focus to something completely different to topic being questioned).

Yes, but she got a tsunami of responses from women last night and that's hard to ignore. The 'egalitarian' BS doesn't cut it and she knows it

I can't help but do a massive eye roll when ever someone claims to be egalitarian.

It's hard to debate with the fuckers. All you get is , you're so mean, switched to 'transpeople are most at risk in the entire world' switched to 'you're so mean. As soon as you counter one point, they are off on another fallacy, then you counter that and they it's all 'why is so hard to be nice' again

Def need some to keep you sane

Stella Creasy knows what she's saying. She also knows other things:

1. MPs who did not support Corbyn as leader are viewed with hostility and suspicion by Corbyn supporters and subject to threats of deselection. And since the loudest pro-Corbyn voices on social media are all pro-trans, they're making every effort to divert attention by being pro-trans too. Stella is virtue signalling in a mea culpa for not supporting Corbyn.

2. Many of the gains Labour are making in the polls are in the younger demographics and the younger demographics* are the most pro-trans. This is a grab for the youth vote by the LP (and I'd also say the Tory proposals for the GRA are an effort to stop the haemorrhage of their youth vote without compromising any of the economic policies. It's not as though the Tories give a shit about women so why should they care). Stella wants that youth vote.

(* As we've said before, the young women will come to regret this position in the future, when the real oppression of biology kicks in.)

I agree with KH too. Normally she expects to shock but on this occasion she's just saying what is true.

After all how shocking is the following sentence?

''you can stitch a penis on to a woman but that doesn't make her a man''.

That sentence, people would just say 'well yeh'' but the reverse can no longer be said.

It would have been more shocking for her to say transwomen are women. She usually gets a kick out of winding feminists up.

The latest issue of Vogue is a big pile of shit tbh.

I want to encourage all the mums of teens to keep trying! One day I imagine they will remember your words and come back to them. I'm young(ish) and would love to have a mum with such strong feminist convictions as all of you seem to. I only came to feminism through mn and I love hearing all of your opinions. My own mum is deeply committed to ensuring men stay at the top

My own mum is deeply committed to ensuring men stay at the top

That is so weird. I've never understood how a woman could think her own sex is shit. Must be self esteem issues.

Don't forget when you have grown up with no power, being told to take responsibility for yourself can sound terrifying. Women from our mothers generation didn't actually own their bank account or house deeds, they could be taken away by a male relative or husband. They could only work with their husbands permission.

What should have been a celebration of progress for women has been taken over by the one TW. If Paris stayed quietly in the background then it would be less offensive. Where does the BBC report the comments of the others in the vogue article? Why is Paris more important that Paris warrants a whole article by the BBC just about Paris but not about anyone else does? This stops being about ''all' women and just about the one tw.
I wonder when these brands will realise that using transwomenn to promote themselves and their products is alienating their core customers and turning off their main target groups.

I find it weird too, and it's definitely self esteem issues.
Irk when did those things change? My mum is in her 50s.

... and another thing..... someone said we are expected to suck it up - we don't have to, we use our power as consumers to proteSt.

I have yet to see even once TM being used to promote products for men - the aren't going to suck it up as the promoters and advertisers well know.

My granny was the biggest misogynist I ever met. If she had important business to deal with in a shop, she'd demand to speak to a man.

She bought my brother a large Easter egg and we got smaller ones, every year. Because 'he's the boy'.

She was a hard working, devout and extremely impressive woman, but she should never have been a housewife. My dad says if they'd put her in charge of a small to medium sized country instead, she'd have been a much nicer person on the weekends.

Some women cut the best deal they think they can and then spend the rest of their life justifying and defending it. My militant feminist attitude softened toward these women when I read Dworkin's Right Wing Women. Prior to that I simply could not make sense of what appeared to be self defeating behavior and attitudes.

Irk - I suspect that I am from your mother's generation. But it still seems weird. And it would have been weird also to my mother (and she was born in 1905).

Ha. Yes TodayIsSunny - I would love to see a transman featuring in male-oriented publications like Mens Health advertising body care products or clothing.

I'm not even sure if the reaction from male readers would be hostile or not. They might just find it laughable and go on about their day because it doesn't present as threatening in the way that biologically-born males accessing female spaces does.

It would be interesting to see though. Funny how we have not yet had the opportunity to even find out... in fact, I'm hard-pressed to think of a single transman with any kind of public profile apart from Cher's son, Chaz Bono (formerly Chastity Bono).

You might be cheered to hear that I tentatively broached the angry response many older feminists have experienced online and elsewhere when they have asked for more research into the implications of the GRA,to my 22yr old granddaughter.
To my surprise she is fully aware of many of the issues ,having been part of discussions at college following deliberate damage to a students artwork with a feminist theme.
She is coming with me from Nottingham to the Manchester meeting.
Theres hope

Good news minivanne!

thebewilderness can you elaborate? If it's not a tangent.. is it like a subconscious survival instinct that makes women choose to be sexist and perpetuate patriarchy?

having been part of discussions at college following deliberate damage to a students artwork with a feminist theme.

How shitty But glad to hear your daughter is on board!

can you elaborate? If it's not a tangent.. is it like a subconscious survival instinct that makes women choose to be sexist and perpetuate patriarchy?

Some of it is ingrained. In the way gender stereotypes are. We may know logically that men and women are equal, but socially we react as we’ve been “trained”. There is no reason I shouldn’t buy my nephew a doll for his birthday if that’s what he’d like, but in reality would even the most feminist of us actually do it?

My grandmother and mother were of those strange generations where they knew women could do anything a man could. Granny lived through two world wars where women had to step up and do mens jobs. My mum was born in the 40’s but had children in the 70’s, and thinking at that time was that the sexes should be raised equally- you should buy boys dolls and girls cars. But also women should stay at home and look after the house and children.

So she inadvertantly raised me as a feminist, knowing i can do anything a man can. She thought i should give up work to have children, but also constantly tells me i’ll be bored at home and should keep my career going. The thing that stands out though is the automatic deference to men- serving first at meals, bigger, choice portions. Always asking what the men want, saying they need to sit down after a day at work with dinner ready. It isn’t conscious, but she wouldn’t offer me a drink first in the same way so many people wouldn’t buy a pink t- shirt with a “girly” slogan on it for a boy.

But surely ‘appropriation’ is a massive no-no which young people will have encountered before?

So if they get what the problem is with Rachel Dolezal ‘feeling’ like a black woman, taking up roles reserved for black women but in truth, being a person born with white privilege and for whom recourse to white privilege is always available any time she wishes.... how is it different and OK for a man who feels like a woman, to take part ‘as a woman’ in a Vogue shoot for women about sex-based discrimination against women. (not gender -based!)
It’s not as if Edwardian society would have allowed ‘masculine’- presenting women with short hair and wearing trousers in to cast their votes with the men before 1918..

If Vogue wanted to feature wider views on this issue then they should have included men commenting on an equal level to the women who were interviewed in this article, regardless of the gender self identification of those men.

What they have done (including a trans woman because #sheisawoman) is historical revisionism which is wrong and particularly insulting to women in the context of commemorating suffragettes specifically.
Suffragettes died and were physically tortured in prison by nasal force feeding, repeatedly in many cases, to get UK women the vote.