Breastfeeding and feminism

[user123098]

Hey
Not trying to be a GF or here to discuss merits of bf or ff but just interested in views - someone said to me tonight that bf is inherently anti feminist as it means men and women can't share domestic and caring load of looking after baby. It's a really interesting point as bf does mean men can't be as involved in feeding, potentially bonding etc
What do you think?

What a load of bollocks.

Bonding doesn’t only happen via feeding. There is loads that partners can do to support bf mothers.

I would also argue that in some cultures it significantly impeeds women's re-entry into the work place if they wish to continue breastfeeding.

Yes I know employers have to make allowances for breastfeeding mothers but the law and the culture seem to be mismatched certainly in the part of England I live in. Out of 100s of women in my workplace in a very female dominated workforce in over 10 years I have not known any of them take up their right to express/breastfeed at work.

In the US it is much more of a common practice and more widely accepted.

Someone said in relation to a different discussion about BF/FF and costs on here a few weeks ago, that breast feeding is only cost effective if you don't place a value on women's time.

Have a read of the politics of breastfeeding by Gabrielle Palmer.
It's a while since I read it but I think it goes into the biology of breastfeeding and touches on the misogyny that came along with the big business that is formula feeding (no judgement on bf vs ff, but the politics behind it all is interesting and disturbing).

after the very early days bf does not actually take that long, there are other ways of organising child rearing and other work that would allow breastfeeding, it's just that our society isn't set up that way.
Actually I see bf as anti capitalist and feminist- we have the means of nourishing our babies without relying on multinationals or men.
I used to hear a lot from women who were worried about their DPs not 'bonding' with babies if they bf. It's rubbish. Men can bond perfectly well with babies if they choose to. It's just that many can't be arsed and some have a mistaken sense of entitlement to women's bodies.

Absolute rubbish. I'm BF my toddler and my DH definitely shares the childcare & is bonded, in fact he's getting him back to sleep now.

I would say a relationship were the man does the larger share of the domestic side when the baby is young and BF a lot is a sign of how far feminism has come. A few years ago the mother would have been expected to do everything it would have been below a man to do it.

Equality means recognising biological differences and still treating as equals.

I think someone is spouting ill-informed, goady bullshit, to be honest. Feminism is not about splitting absolutely everything 50/50 because equality. Someone needs to brush up on what they’re talking about and stop implying that feminists are doing feminism wrong .

In any case there are TONNES of domestic/caring tasks involved in looking after an infant that are not negated by breastfeeding, and plenty of parents manage to bond with their children without breastfeeding them!

I see it as purely biological. I know some partners use it as an excuse not to do their share, but it doesn't need to be that way.

Disagree with the bonding side. Mothers who ff don't have inferior bonds to bf, so no reason why a father to a bf baby can't bond.

Imo the only feminist issue around bf is the way it is used to beat ff mothers over the head with. Resulting in new mothers who worry they are failing if they can't. As though lactating with ease is the most important/ only role of a mother.

I breastfed with ease but hated the way I saw some ff mums put down for their equally valid decision, and now it's even more common.

I have never come across anything so ridiculous. It is simply a biological function

Are you now going to suggest that being in possession of a womb and giving birth is also anti feminist?

there's also an environmental aspect- breastmilk produces no waste, requires no packaging or transportation, zero carbon footprint
another vote for the politics of breastfeeding, too!

Indeed newt

I joke (but it's true) that I did the 14 months of BFing night wakings and DH has done every one since. DD is a lot older than 28 months so he's done a lot more! Equal doesn't mean the same.

And I agree with PP that BFing makes plain that breasts are not primarily there to delight and entertain men.

Equality means recognising biological differences and still treating as equals.

This. Otherwise, next pregnancy will be antifeminist. It is certainly more intrusive than BFing.

Yes, workplaces have to make allowances for feeding. But they also had to install diferent loos when they stateed hireing women, and somehow they have has managed. BFing has not stopped me going back to work, nor has it stopped DH bonding.

Unless we're talking about returning to work at 6 weeks, why the fuck does breastfeeding repeatedly get cited as a blocker for women returning to work?

Esp given that the percentage of babies exclusively breastfed at 6 months is something like 3%.

But what about pregnancy and giving birth and periods and boobs??? Are these all anti-feminist?

No.

Doesn't the politics of breastfeeding go into how breastmilk is like liquid gold? Also how formula companies purposely influenced the design of hospitals to stop babies being roomed with their babies and therefore trying to infect stop breastfeeding established?

I think breastfeeding is amazing but it can be all consuming at first.

I also remember reading childhood deaths from diarrhoea and malnutrition and that in developing and poorer countries breastfeeding is really important.

Take Botswana, it did a big government drive on formula feeding (with good intentions as they were concerned about hiv transmission) but this ended in an increase of child mortality. Also the immunity qualities of breastmilk are not fully understood.

Anyhow, I used to worry about working full time and breastfeeding. I didn't think it could be done and so many women I knew compare about pumping their milk and did mixed feeding or found it hard to transition the child to formula and really stressed about it.

I could not even express a drop nor could be actually bothered too but my children would always feed well (once I got help establishing feeding from a fab nhs).

I put my first baby into nursery at around 5.5 months in full time nursery. My baby never took formula and used to throw it at the staff but would breastfeed a lot. They tried everything and then said look baby is fine during the day we are not going to try feed formula.

Once solids were introduced they used to give a bit of cheese yoghurt and obviously water but my baby would wait. It meant I still did some night feeds and my husband had to pick up the slack as I would go straight from work to home for big feeding sessions.

Anyhow I only tried this after seeing threads about other working mums on mumsnet . I really thought one couldn't combine breastfeeding with work and I was so wrong.

It was all fine and there wasn't really an issues. I couldn't work too late but could do 12 hour days. I kept breastfeeding until both my children were 3.5 years old. I changed employers - my first employer was always supportive about baby stuff but I didn't express and only bf at work if I brought my baby in on a day off like near Christmas shopping.

There were some issues if I worked more than a 12 hour day I needed to bf as could feel the build up if breast milk but that was it.

I do remember a girl friend freaking out because another women had leaked some milk through her shirt while in this corporate meeting but I really put her right about that.

My second employer was not family friendly - I still breastfed - they were none the wiser for my toddler and my next baby. They didn't have a clue about anything like that.

Giving birth and bf are the two things that made me a feminist (ie in my case deconstruct my previous believes) - getting my own information and opinion, having a voice in a segregated room, using my body, etc. So... in my case... total bollocks

Fuck that was long.

I don't judge anyone else who doesn't BF.

FWIW I look back and go wow I really nailed that part of parenting.

I look back and think wow my babies and my body was awesome how it managed that role giving birth, breastfeeding and motherhoood and earning money.

Somehow it made me feel really empowered.

Also I support working parents with young children who have fallen under my management.

Sorry one other thing I think that is men produced breastmilk they would go on and on about how wonderful it is ... over and over.

I also find the sexualisation of breasts interesting and I think I recall this is touched upon in the politics of breastfeeding book.

There is another book called why love matters and it is really interested about bonds and the importance of motherhood and parenthood.

Right I will stop now...

It is just a personal anecdote but the only time in my life I I have ever hated being a woman was when I was breastfeeding.

I loathed every minute of it and was at the point, when I gave up that far from bonding I was resenting my son. I deeply resented the pressure put on me to breastfeed by midwives, health visitor and the feeding counsellor.

Sorry one other thing I think that is men produced breastmilk they would go on and on about how wonderful it is ... over and over

Well women do.

I presume this someone is a believe of equity rather than equality. In equity dad does 50% of the feeds, mum does 50% of the feeds, dad does 50% of the nappies, mum does 50% of the nappies etc.(and into an infinity of childish tit for tat turn taking). In equality both parents put in equal effort and time into taking care of the child. Tasks such as feeding, changing, bathing, playing with, walking, taking to appointments, providing for financially etc. are split in the basis of which parent is best able to perform these tasks thus making the most efficient use of parental resources. Obviously there is a natural bias towards mothershaving more contact with their babies because they able to breastfeed in most cases making it more convenient for them to do other things as they are less likely to be the parent that sacrifices time with the baby to work. However, having the ability and the option to breastfeed doesn't force women into the caring role, it just means that they are the slightly more capable candidate (all other things being equal). Women are still free to choose whether or not to breastfeed and so are not oppressed by breastfeeding but rather exercising their free will.

The only way that someone could think that breastfeeding was anti femenist was if they believed that feminism was about making women do exactly what men do rather than about ensuring that women are free to make their own choices.

I've usually seen equity and equality described the other way round @RestingGrinchFace - as in the cartoon: interactioninstitute.org/illustrating-equality-vs-equity/