Breastfeeding and feminism

[user123098]

Hey
Not trying to be a GF or here to discuss merits of bf or ff but just interested in views - someone said to me tonight that bf is inherently anti feminist as it means men and women can't share domestic and caring load of looking after baby. It's a really interesting point as bf does mean men can't be as involved in feeding, potentially bonding etc
What do you think?

I did feel a bit like a dairy cow. It's made me think seriously about organism. Whenever I see cows queuing up waiting to be milked I feel really sorry for them. That sore engorged feeling is horrid.
I also didn't enjoy the random let down and leaking

Of the mums I know the feminist bf, the anti feminists ff.

All the very political people I know breastfed. My friend and I both read The Politics of Breastfeeding and were outraged by the way capitalism has co-opted infant feeding.

I'm a feminist and breastfeed/co-sleep/do the childcare in our family. DH does more of the shitwork. I don't know if this makes me a bad feminist, but it works for us.

I did feel a bit like a dairy cow.

I didn't mind when it was the baby, but the few times I tried expressing I definitely had a weird feeling around it - luckily neither of the kids were interested in bottles, and it never became vital for me to leave them for so long they'd need too until they were old enough to use straws/cups...

I also didn't enjoy the random let down and leaking grin

You know you've been BFing a while when you have a specific drapey top that you know you can cover the multiple leaks with when out and about (plus my silicone lilypadz...)

The thing I really didn't enjoy was afterpains caused by the feeding - tiny newborn gulping away and I'm trying not to double over in pain and squish them/rip them off my boob because of it! I completely forgot they existed so that was an unpleasant week or so re-discovering!

Do if men can't bond cos they can't breast feed, does that mean women who can't breast feed also can't bond? Ffs.

I agree with cloud person. The politics behind ff and anti bf are astounding - primarily for capitalist reasons. Hospitals were even designed to separate babies and mothers to make early bf harder in order to encourage ff, sponsored by formula companies. To me, much profit was made out of women's feeding methods.

I'm pretty lactivisty in that I believe it's in the interest of women to BF, I believe that formula advertising should be banned and I am upset and angry that BF is not considered the norm. I do not believe 'fed is best', I believe 'breast is best' and believe that midwives should actively encourage BF to pregnant women.

However, I am a feminist before I am a lactivist, and the bottom line is - women should not be made to do anything with their body that they don't want to do. That includes breastfeeding. They do not need to justify their reasons for not breastfeeding.

Also I bet my bottom dollar that the vast majority of FF women still do most of the bottle feeds. The stumbling block to parental equality is not BF

CherryChasingDotMuncher

I'm pretty lactivisty in that I believe it's in the interest of women to BF, I believe that formula advertising should be banned and I am upset and angry that BF is not considered the norm. I do not believe 'fed is best', I believe 'breast is best' and believe that midwives should actively encourage BF to pregnant women

Do you spout that evil , nonsensical rant in real life or just on anonymous internet forums? How dare you. I could write a lot more but I am so angry at your arrogance and self- righteousness.

And no, your mealy- mouthed second paragraph does not make your first paragraph any better.

A father can still carry baby in a soft sling, have skin to skin, change all the nappies, wash the clothes- care for and bond with a breastfed baby.

The issues arise later with a woman's return to work and often this being incompatible with breastfeeding. With the mother falling into role of default parent, reducing hours.

I think I would have had a breakdown if I had not given up breastfeeding- but just carry on spouting "breast is best" don't give a damn about the mother's well- being.

You weren't by any chance involved with the NCT in Edinburgh in the 1990s? You remind me a lot of the so called "feeding advisor" I had the misfortune to meet.

Lass eh?! What is evil about my post

but just carry on spouting "breast is best" don't give a damn about the mother's well- being.

Much like you carry on making baseless assumptions about how I feel about the wellbeing of new mothers? Did you not read my second paragraph?

I agree with you cherry but it sounds like lass had a difficult time feeding so is taking what you said personally.
lass I believe cherry is talking about women as a class not individual women. What specifically is evil because I don't think anything she said was that controversial?

I was (and am) a feminist long before I had babies and felt strongly about my choice to BF them. To me, BF is sisters doing it for themselves....no one making money out of my choice, and no one suggesting my own body is incapable of making a product that is exactly right for my infant.

Formula marketing took hold by convincing mothers and the rest of the world that breastmilk was often not enough, in quantity and quality.

Even today, alongside the belief that breastmilk is 'best', individual women doubt their own milk all the time. They can doubt it because they worry their diet is not good, that they have flu, that they had an alcoholic drink, that their baby is hard to settle. Of course BF doesn't always go well - good help to establish it and resolve problems may not be easy to access, and for some mothers, underlying problems are too great. Persisting with BF may cause misery and even mental health problems. That's a feminist issue too - making sure the systems are in place so mothers don't feel personally 'blameworthy' if they use formula (info and help with formula freely available, for example).

The defensiveness that's sometimes expressed by women who use formula is often turned on breastfeeding women, on breastfeeding supporters - and that divisiveness plays into the hands of patriarchy, IMO.

Cherry, your post was not evil.

Lass, you are being unfair. Not everything about this issue is about you individually.

From the politics of bf, I recognised how ff companies and those with vested interests have driven a wedge between ff mums and bf mums. The build up of overt and subconscious advertising over the decades is huge. The baby sleep industry spawned off the back of it. And it's insecurities about either bf or ff that the industries thrive on. And the consequential impact on women's mental health (am I doing right? By me, by my child?) is huge. I recognise that formula has huge value. IMO it should be government branded, one form only, nhs good quality. The follow on milks serve to worry women even more - 'this will raise my children's iq so I'll spend more money on it' is the underlying message. Already on this thread raw nerves have been lit which is exactly what I feel the baby industries love.

I don't regard enjoying getting out of the house and going to work in an office for 8 hrs a day as ineluctably male. Being able to financially support my family doesn't require a big thrusty spurty penis. Neither did it prevent me from extended breastfeeding my DS, because breastfeeding a 10 month or 12 month or 14 month old bears zero fucking resemblance to breastfeeding a 6 week old baby.

It's possible that the idiotic insistence on talking about feeding strapping great 12-18 month old toddlers as if it is exactly the same as bfing a teeny 5 week old has some negative effect on continuing breastfeeding. Why aim at 1-2 years if it sounds like it'll be like the first 6 weeks?

Hmmm

The thing that is anti-feminist about BF is the patronising tone taken by lactavists :

‘You’ve been made to see your breasts as sexual’
‘It’s the world’s most natural thing’
‘Breast is best, you know. Think of it as liquid gold’

The emotional pressure and judgement behind these statements is the worst kind of
manipulation and bullying. If you can’t get people to BF without scaremongering and infantilising women then there is a problem with what you are peddling.

Surely the feminist approach is ‘Your body, your rules’.

It is totally fucking insensitive and insulting to talk to adult women about their own bodies and not take into account their feelings and unique experiences.

I find it interesting that the La Leche Legue was started by a group of Catholic housewives. So obviously really feminist.

@spoonofjam Can you explain in more detail how you feel this works:
"The issues arise later with a woman's return to work and often this being incompatible with breastfeeding"?

Only 34% of women in the UK are bfing at all by 6 months. 0.5 by 12 months. Only a minority are affected by this. And as one of the 0.5% I am frankly mystified by the strength of this incompatibility myth.

Everything NannyOggsKnickers said.

Did you not read my second paragraph?

Yes I did. I also read I believe it's in the interest of women to BF,

I don't swear on MN but I came very close to it. How dare you set yourself to dictate what is best for other women.

Everything NannyOggsKnickers said

I second that.

Nannyogg, no excuse for anyone to talk to women in that way, I agree. Infantalising, praising women for BF (ugh), cheer leading....none of it has a place in today's world.

LLL started 6O years ago. Ethos was indeed catholic. It's far more inclusive now and it's not fair to throw that bit of history at them.

In any case, LLL are far from the only BF support organisation.

How dare you set yourself to dictate what is best for other women.

Take your gripe with the NHS lass and the WHO. Both have set out the numerous health benefits for women who breastfeed, which is where I take my personal belief that it's in the interest of women to BF.

Nothing evil about my post whatsoever