Breastfeeding and feminism

[user123098]

Hey
Not trying to be a GF or here to discuss merits of bf or ff but just interested in views - someone said to me tonight that bf is inherently anti feminist as it means men and women can't share domestic and caring load of looking after baby. It's a really interesting point as bf does mean men can't be as involved in feeding, potentially bonding etc
What do you think?

Equality is equal treatment and opportunity. Equity is equal outcome.

Giving women the right to access education is an example of equality.
Forcing universities to set a 50% quota on all courses for female students is an example of equity.

Equality deals with process while equity deals with outcome.

So re childcare. In equity both parents are expected to do the same amount of the same thing. In equality the both have the opportunity to perform all tasks but choose to allocate tasks fairly in accordance with ability and personal preference.

In equality the both have the opportunity to perform all tasks

Men* categorically don’t have the opportunity to breastfeed, though. So is that supporting the OP (or ‘someone’ they’ve been speaking to)’s point? I’m just playing devil’s avocado here.

*by which I mean adult humans of the XY chromosome persuasion, obvs

Feeding is a task. It is essential. breastfeeding is one way to do it but not the only way and not essential. Breastfeeding and formula feeding both count as feeding the child.

Breastfeeding is a part of woman reproductive cycle. Woman having ownership over thier own reproductive cycle is a feminist act.

That breastfeeding isn’t valued is tied to capalism and patriarchy.

breast feeding is only cost effective if you don't place a value on women's time

This is not a feminist view, IMHO, this is an accountant's way of looking at things.

Women and men are different, we shouldn't have to negate our womanhood.

Wow so many replies!! Wish I'd had some of these points when I was arguing with her last night!

How can telling women not to do something that only they can do be feminist? Feminism is pro-woman!

I agree with other posters - I bf one to past 3 and one to 8 months - past the first couple of intense months, you can work around it. Nights entirely depends on the baby (I was lucky my non-sleeper was the first so I could nap in the day) I think that is the only real time women need be really impacted by bfing because trying to work when you've been woken in the night 3 or 4 times to feed is tough.

As to bonding pff- plenty of ways to bond that aren't feeding. DP was chief bather, showerer and warm nap-mattress for instance.

breast feeding is only cost effective if you don't place a value on women's time

This is not a feminist view, IMHO, this is an accountant's way of looking at things

Exactly - that's not feminism, that's capitalism.

I'm not from the UK, which has a peculiarly low rate of breastfeeding due to manipulation by formula corporations, so my view is coloured by that fact.

In my opinion breastfeeding is part of gestating. Some women can't do it, that's fine. But it's a compleyely normal part of having a baby.

I agree that it is an anti-capitalist act. And a feminist act, as per reasons above.

Actually I see bf as anti capitalist and feminist- we have the means of nourishing our babies without relying on multinationals or men. I used to hear a lot from women who were worried about their DPs not 'bonding' with babies if they bf. It's rubbish. Men can bond perfectly well with babies if they choose to. It's just that many can't be arsed and some have a mistaken sense of entitlement to women's bodies.

This! I think in a truly feminist society work would be structured to support family requirements as well as money making requirements. One of these ways would be to allow working women to breastfeed. On site creches, split shifts, part time, flexi working etc.
I have no time for the idea fathers can't bond if mum is breastfeeding. Utter and total rubbish.

Absolutely agree that BF strikes me as highly feminist - relying on my own body not to please a man but to nourish my child. And not outsource that to Nestle or Danone.

I’m another one who went back to work (4.5 months) and BF and expressed never giving formula. DC1 had breast milk until 16 months. I live in a country with only 2 mint maternity leave and no government right to have time to express or BF at work and yet it still has higher BF rates than the UK. So I don’t see going back to work as an impediment. By 6 months (when many british women start to return) babies can get by without any milk during the day if they have dairy in their solids and make up with extra nursing before and after work. I have a few friends whose babies never took a bottle but they still went back to work!

I never found breastfeeding a particularly bonding experience. I think it is such an odd idea that some women view it this way.

DD was a very slow feeder and every feed took an hour and a half. I used to read or watch TV/videos while I was feeding her. Staring lovingly at her little face for an hour and a half would have been extremely boring. (yes I did have her latch checked, and she was latched on properly)

I live in Norway. I saw a woman in a coffee shop feeding her baby with a bottle and did a double take. It really is that rare here. Parental leave after birth is one year, but to get the full year, both parents must share (minimum three months or you lose it). The men are bonded to their children. Both parents (if they both work) are entitled to ten days off when their children are ill up to the age of twelve. It’s normal to split it between parents.

Breastfeeding is not anti-feminist. Governments and UK workplaces are.

For me the most important thing about feminism is empowering women, not telling them what they can’t do.

Equality doesn’t mean that we have to be the same, but rather that we empower and value women’s achievements as equally important.

No DH can’t breastfeed, but he can get up in the night with the baby, he can allow me to nap in the evening to make up for my lost sleep feeding.

I have a partner and work that are supportive and therefore I have a breastfed 10 month old and work full time in a career that I love. People tell me I’m lucky DH is willing to be a SAHP, I am, DH is ace, but I bet he never got told he was lucky I was a SAHP when I had a year off with our first. This is what we need to challenge as feminists, the notion that we are some how lucky or privileged to expect an equal level of opportunity as men. We don’t need to take away the things that are female and feminine to do this, rather we need to find ways of celebrating and supporting these without it having to be at the cost or detriment to the woman.

I also agree that pregnancy and breastfeeding made me feel even more strongly about feminism.

Of course breastfeeding can be a lot of pressure and hard work, but my DH understood and basically did everything else. I can understand why it might feel anti feminist if you have a baby feeding all day and you still have to do everything else yourself too, but I don't think that's a breastfeeding problem. I went back to work full time at eight months and never had to express or feed in the day.

Having had one formula fed baby and one breastfed baby I definitely felt more free while breastfeeding. While I couldn't really go out alone for a long time, I could go anywhere with my baby without having to worry about bottles and hot water.

YY, The Politics of Breastfeeding is really good.

Aside from that there is LOADS which is worth discussing about breastfeeding in the context of feminism.

• The fact that breastfeeding is (rightly) identified as a net boon to public health - yet this being misidentified as simply a choice and therefore all funds, energy, marketing, training etc goes into persuading women to make that choice, when we have extensive evidence that choice is not the thing which reduces BF rates. Even when women keep saying, over and over, that we find this patronising and unhelpful. That what would be helpful would be proper support and protection of breastfeeding. (e.g. stricter control over formula marketing). Instead of support we are usually offered platitudes and half truths. This attitude carries over so that even women-to-women support forums are full of this breastfeeding "debate" where some continue to espouse the "choice" argument and berate others who they feel "chose" not to and some adopt a very defensive attitude, understandably for self protection! It's become a battleground and this is harmful to women.

• Certain popular parenting books/practices plus workplace demands/social norms which undermine breastfeeding and tell women "Your instincts are wrong, don't be so silly and emotional."

• Ownership of women's bodies by government and health agencies - that even if BF is the most wonderful boon to public health that means women don't have the right to choose? I know I sound like I'm contradicting myself here, but actually it is the same point - the focus is on trying to persuade women to make a particular choice, which might be better in terms of population level infant/child health, but is not necessarily better in terms of the individual woman's mental health or lifestyle. Women should be supported and empowered to make the choice which is best for them via access to information, and not berated or harangued by medical professionals or anyone else for going against what is thought of as "best".

• Certain parts of the Attachment Parenting movement, particularly when combined with modern life. I feel conflicted about this because I believed so strongly in this at one time! But I can't deny especially in hindsight that a movement which basically says a child has ONE main carer, and the attachment with this one carer is beyond all other importance and must involve being in contact with the child basically 24/7, and that if your child has any problems (behavioural, emotional, etc) it's because you need to spend more time with them - it's very guilt inducing. And while when I was involved with AP I would have sworn blind that this wasn't the case and it was okay for a child to have several main carers as long as they were restricted to a few, the reality is that most women caring for a small child are basically alone, so ALL the burden falls to them. One of the other problems with this being that the AP circles are one of the ONLY places to get properly intensive BF support and hence all of the very good BF support sources are tied up in this AP mindset, which might work for some people but does not need to be presented as the only way.

• OTOH an idea that women who do decide to breastfeed for longer or co-sleep for example are "martyring" themselves or "too involved" or "want their children to stay babies" - I find this very anti-woman and frustrating!

Probably more - but those are my front-line, women-experienced issues. TPOB explores more of the economic and political side.

Oh yes and lazy men deciding that because you're BFing they "can't" do anything else although I think this is more about inequality of labour in the first place - because invariably if you pump or switch to bottles they never step up anyway.

breast feeding is only cost effective if you don't place a value on women's time

rubbish. What is the monetary value of my time when I am not in paid employment, or on maternity leave? It's still cost effective,

Need to eat the thread but I'm just getting in the bath.

I have heard that bf is antifeminist, based on the restrictions on returning to work. But that only works imo if you view the "Male model" of employment-Uber-achievement as successful.

But I will properly catch up in a bit... :)

Need to read the thread...

I find this ridiculous. My husband had no problem bonding with our baby. Breastfeeding is not the only way to bond with a child. What do people think happened before formula with paternal attachment?

I never found breastfeeding a particularly bonding experience. I think it is such an odd idea that some women view it this way

It was not a bonding experience for me. I felt less than human doing it; like a farm animal. It really was the only time I have disliked my body and the guilt tripping and pressure to bf was awful.

Brilliant post bertie

lass that's exactly what I don't like about it. I found being praised for bf as a young lone parent patronising at best, and often insulting. Given my circumstances were pretty abysmal at the time, there was lots I was privately proud of coping with/ achieving. And bf wasn't one of them.

Not that my experience is on the same scale as the grief that gets heaped on women who either struggle to bf or choose to ff from the start.