Follow on thread III - Feeling sad and weary that feminists and trans-women are constantly pitted against one another.

[SophoclesTheFox]

I don't know if it has the legs to sustain a third thread, but kudos to perfectly for the impeccable timing of finally answering a question on the second to last post before the thread filled up. Genius.

here is the second thread

As I am now the OP, I wonder if this gives me the right of veto over the resolutions that we apparently made in the Great Accords of 2017?

Can't be bothered to start a new thread because there are too many trans threads at the moment, but this should show how invisible lesbians are in the LGBT movement at the moment
www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/12/25/the-heroes-who-made-2017-so-much-better/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Holy crap quentin

"Has anyone noticed that transwomen make the news for success in business, sport, the arts and politics, while transmen make the news for having babies?" anon
The Feminazgûl

WTF is happening in that article!

Am I correct - not one single actual lesbian, but at least seven trans women?

Well. We said it would be like this. Lesbians vanish under the new regime.

Wow - should rename GBT!! Cant believe there isnt one lesbian out there who deserves some recognition for something - not even worthy of a tokenistic reward - gee thanks fellas !!!! Yes that is so true only ever seem to see FTMs in loved up relationships with a girl and a baby - i wonder how keen they would be to go into a mens prison?? oh but statistically speaking they would be unlikely to commit the violent crimes that would warrant them to have a custodial sentence!!

I know! And Suzi Green FFS. And Lily Madigan fffffffs

a 19-year-old teenager

The LGBT movement should rename itself as the "Women (and the odd gay man)'s Movement" (with Women meaning transwomen obviously)

Even before the T emerged in its modern manifestation the gay boys who ran the movement ranged from those who were outright misogynists who hated women to those who simply ignored lesbians. There were precious few who acknowledged lesbians, let alone cared about the oppression they faced as lesbians and as women. Yet they are all over trans. Funny that.

I was involved with 2nd wave feminism and with gay rights activism in the late 70’s and 1980s. The number of men-and women- prepared to throw women, particularly lesbians, under buses was breathtaking, even then.

Just in case it's not been clear, when perfectly has swapped from switch mode to bait mode and made one of their modest proposals* they've typically had the following characteristics:

1. they're unworkable; and
2. because of 1) any attempt at enforcement would provide endless material for "it's literal genocide against trans people".

I cannot believe that's been someone posting in good faith.

But on the positive side, this series of threads has been a great example of facts-based versus faith-based arguments.

• only made in the spirit of reasonableness, no other reason

State of this.

No fucking mention of breast binding and sterilisation, I note.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/23/a-teenager-transitions-and-tolerance-and-unconditional-love-pay-off

#PeakGuardian

From the Guardian linked by Assigned:

Evidence 'the legendary tantrums when she was an infant and refused to wear dresses to parties, the rejection of dolls, the enthusiasm for joining the soccer team at school'. So is every woman who doesn't wear dresses to parties actually a transman? If so, we're going to lose a lot of the female population!

'watched an episode of ABC’s Australian Story about a young woman who felt trapped in the wrong body and began the process of transitioning, she turned to her mother and said calmly: “That’s me.”'' So media.

Can a girl in her mid teens comprehend the consequences of sterilization? Who will be her future sexual/romantic partners? Gay men or straight women who hanker after female genitalia?

Can a girl in her mid teens comprehend the consequences of sterilization? Who will be her future sexual/romantic partners? Gay men or straight women who hanker after female genitalia

I know sterilisation is frequently mentioned here as the ultimate horror, but in all honesty I don't think it the worst. Those who have drug treatments might face all sorts of horrific future side-effects and the surgery, for those who do change their minds (and even for many who don't) can be seen as producing mutilated genitals with limited sexual function.

Also - to be honest I see potential sexual / romantic partners likely being those who have a fetish for trans genitalia. This is common in porn and a special service in prostitution.

There's a market for chicks with dicks, but not the reverse as far as I know (Buck Angel seems to have been more of a novelty?). Also the clientele are probably looking for sexual encounters rather than long-term romantic partners.

And as the number of trans people increases, are the number of people with such specialist tastes going to increase as well?

Contrast homosexuality: as more women came out as lesbian in the 1970s, say, there was more demand for lesbian partners but also more supply.

There's a recent tweet by a TIF complaining that gay men don't want her (!).

I suspect that all the well-meaning people giving this Australian girl unconditional love and tolerance have not warned her about the very hard road that lies ahead. Just because people use your preferred pronoun does not mean that they will actually see you as the sex you imagine yourself as.

As some wit put it on twitter: progressives will be trans allies in the tweets, transphobes in the sheets.

Back in the day I found reading trans forums (fora?) eye opening. The sheer number of admiring male ‘allies’ joining the forums to show their appreciation for men dressed as women was fascinating. I assume they were all gay men in denial tbh - and wanking off over ‘girls’/ men in dresses allowed them to remain in denial. Or maybe they are indeed a subset of gay men who prefer men pretending to be women. As above though - totally only in it for a quick shag (if not just using the sites as gay porn but pretending it was straight porn) definitely no long term relationships. The term ‘allies’ makes me smile, as ten years ago a trans ally was definitely a pretend straight man that was just looking for a gay shag with a transwoman.

Evidence 'the legendary tantrums when she was an infant and refused to wear dresses to parties, the rejection of dolls, the enthusiasm for joining the soccer team at school'. So is every woman who doesn't wear dresses to parties actually a transman? If so, we're going to lose a lot of the female population!

That description fits every member of my family (well, actually DP and DS1 haven't ever tried a party dress if I'm honest - although both have worn them for fancy dress) except for my youngest son. I can see there's gonna be some changes around here :P

As some wit put it on twitter: progressives will be trans allies in the tweets, transphobes in the sheets.

Ahh. I've seen that in shorthand form and couldn't work out what it meant.

There's a recent tweet by a TIF complaining that gay men don't want her (!).

I've seen that too. She was quite convinced that she could be the gay man of their dreams (despite being pissed off that she always had to be the 'bottom').

My occasional wanderings into Datalounge led me to conclude that gay men find the idea of female genitalia, however modified, exceptionally offputting.

I am always struck afresh about how much sex is motivation for a lot of this. If not all of it.

I am always struck afresh about how much sex is motivation for a lot of this. If not all of it.

I have yet to go onto any 'trans' person's twitter account and there are many links to fetishism, anime or weird sex sites in their feed or profile or photos. Alot of the trans fan club are the same. It is all very eerie.

I am always struck afresh about how much sex is motivation for a lot of this. If not all of it.

I have yet to go onto any 'trans' person's twitter account and not see links to fetishism, anime or weird sex sites in their feed or profile or photos. Alot of the trans fan club are the same. It is all very eerie.

ATeardropExplodes

I agree. I don't know if it's because that specific type of transwoman is prolific online. Sexual kicks are far easier to be had online, than they are in real life, one assumes.

But, to me, it doesn't matter. The fact that there is significant cohort who are forcing people to accommodate their fetish is enough.

They are getting complacent, too. So the narratives are becoming more candid. Jealousy, lust and misogyny.

It's an horrific combination.

Lily must be trolling....surely...

mobile.twitter.com/madigan_lily/status/946552946212384769

Apparently it's transphobic to say a TIM can't get pregnant, because most women can't get pregnant right at any given moment so Lily is the same as most women

Lots of trans people who have had surgery are on social media, expressing surprise and distress that they can't get sexual partners apart from one-off hook ups from men who fancy a novelty shag. It's sad. It's clear that there are truly epic levels of denial in many of those who undergo transition. And the media normalising transition, with very little coverage of the downside, of course makes things worse.

As more kids are encouraged to take PBs from before puberty, things will get worse. How can you possibly make an informed decision to give up sexual pleasure for a lifetime before you have ever had an orgasm?