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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Man in Brighton exposes himself to children while wearing womens clothes claims athletes foot made him do it

229 replies

miri1985 · 15/12/2017 01:37

www.theargus.co.uk/news/15768693.Salesman_in_sports_bra_exposed_himself_in_children___s_play_area/

Don't worry this kind of thing never happens!

OP posts:
Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 15:37

and the not female enough woman and the passing trans person, how are you dealing with them

Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 15:38

They are saying they cant use those spaces. its ridiculous to expect a passing trans woman to use the gents

BatShite · 15/12/2017 15:39

What on earth do you mean by 'not female enough' woman?

I don't know if you know this, but for many years now transwomen have used female areas. It is the opening it up to all male people that is the issue here.

Passing transwomen...what about them? Hmm

PencilsInSpace · 15/12/2017 15:40

Debbie6666 Because the final bit of paperwork which is not particularly important to the real world but quite important to some is an intrusive and expensive process.

It's £140 with a fee waiver for those on a low income.

Indeed the process requires access and use of all those spaces everyone is getting upset about.

Indeed it doesn't. The evidence required for living 2 years in your chosen gender is 5-6 documents in your new identity covering the relevant time span.

I don't believe it's that intrusive either. You send in your evidence with your 2 medical reports and your signed declaration and as long as all your paperwork is in order you have a very good chance of being granted a GRC. Compare this with what people have to go through to claim a disability benefit - now that's intrusive.

BatShite · 15/12/2017 15:41

Instead of this ridiculous whataboutery, why don't you tell me YOUR solution here? Given a third space is no good, expecting people to use the areas associated with their sex is no good, getting rid of sex segregation is no good...there must be some solution you have in mind?

Elendon · 15/12/2017 15:42

Why are there not laws for the legal definition of men?

Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 15:42

I know very well trans women use women's toilets. Its a false claim that the GRA will let men into the ladies,

Any male looking person in the ladies will rightfully be challenged both now and after self id GRA. It wont be a crime to do so.

it will carry on just as it is now and has been for years. no need for third spaces, no need for trans women to use the gents.

Go in the facility, use if for what it was designed for, mind you own business, be sensible and respectful of other users. its not hard is it, we have been doing it for years.

BatShite · 15/12/2017 15:44

Go in the facility, use if for what it was designed for, mind you own business, be sensible and respectful of other users. its not hard is it, we have been doing it for years.

So, if theres no issue with how things are now, why the push from transactivists to be changing the GRA? Who will benefit from the changes?

Elendon · 15/12/2017 15:45

its ridiculous to expect a passing trans woman to use the gents

Really? Deb

Care to expand on why this is ridiculous

SparklyUnicornTractors · 15/12/2017 15:45

Why is the 'third space' going to be lesser for pete's sake? How?

If you have someone saying 'I cannot use the toilet/changing room designated for my sex because....' then fine, they should have an alternative. It's not fine to just demand that women sacrifice their own spaces.

Elendon · 15/12/2017 15:46

Why do trans women feel unsafe in male toilets? Deb

Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 15:47

PencilsInSpace

That is the process on paper, reality is somewhat different. there are other costs involved in obtaining the correct documentation before the GRC cost. There is more than a 5 bits of paperwork needed. If its so easy then it makes no odds to let self ID which is easy too. The vast majority who have been through the process say its intrusive and costly.

QuentinSummers · 15/12/2017 15:48

It looks to me like we have been successfully diverted away from the topic at hand, e.g. how to make it harder for men like in the OP to commit sex crimes

Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 15:48

BatShite

Because the GRA has nothing to do with taking a piss in the shopping centre toilets.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/12/2017 15:49

Any male looking person in the ladies will rightfully be challenged both now and after self id GRA. It wont be a crime to do so

Actually it will. It will be considered discrimatory to question a transpersons sex.

How do you propose to tell the difference between male identifying as female, and male pretending to identify as female?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/12/2017 15:52

Because the GRA has nothing to do with taking a piss in the shopping centre toilets.

That is a tiny tiny part of it I agree. The more worrying thing is the elimination of male and female sex categories in law.

BatShite · 15/12/2017 15:53

Because the GRA has nothing to do with taking a piss in the shopping centre toilets.

Who will benefit from the proposed changes, which include removing a diagnosis of sex dysphoria?

How will allowing anyone to 'change sex' by filling in a form help transsexual people, who can already get a GRC under current rules?

BatShite · 15/12/2017 15:53

That is a tiny tiny part of it I agree. The more worrying thing is the elimination of male and female sex categories in law.

Indeed.

Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 15:56

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

No it wont. It would be discriminatory to deny them access once the facts are established, if they are genuine then the facts will support them being trans, If they are a predatory male then the facts wont support them being trans, they wont have a driving licence, they wont have a passport, etc The stat dec is not the licence to go where you want on its own, its a tool to finish off your transition on your own terms, chances are like the GRC it would be discriminatory to ask for it so it would be useless as a supporting doc in its own right.

BatShite · 15/12/2017 15:58

What 'facts' are we talking about here? How can we tell the difference between 'genuine' and 'predatory male' when all that is required of either is to fill in a form?

MentholBreeze · 15/12/2017 15:59

Any male looking person in the ladies will rightfully be challenged both now and after self id GRA. It wont be a crime to do so

honestly I don't think this is what will happen. If women stop feeling safe in toilets, they'll just stop using them.

MentholBreeze · 15/12/2017 16:00

It would be discriminatory to deny them access once the facts are established, if they are genuine then the facts will support them being trans,

How are we establishing these facts - it's discrimination to ask them to show a GRC.

QuentinSummers · 15/12/2017 16:02

So if I saw someone like this in the toilet, is be a bigot for asking them to leave because they are a trans woman
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/us/target-transgender-idaho-voyeurism.amp.html

But if I asked the man wearing women's clothes in this article to leave it would be ok because he's not trans
www.theargus.co.uk/news/15768693.Salesman_in_sports_bra_exposed_himself_in_children___s_play_area/

Confused
Debbie6666 · 15/12/2017 16:03

It doesn't eliminate sex in law, there will still be male and female and X non binary.

Doing a stat declaration will not stand up to scrutiny if its the only thing done towards transition.

As per the current GRC it would hopefully be discrimination to ask for a stat dec from a trans person. it is expected to be non discriminatory to ask for the same ID every other person has. A false stat dec without driving licence, passport, bank cards, etc wont stand up to any claim to be in a single sex place.

BatShite · 15/12/2017 16:05

Doing a stat declaration will not stand up to scrutiny if its the only thing done towards transition.

But this is actually exactly what the changes are to be! No changes, no diagnosis, nothing at all. Besides filling in a form.

So you understand why people are concerned now I take it?

It sounds ridiculous, but this is exactly what the proposals are.