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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Man in Brighton exposes himself to children while wearing womens clothes claims athletes foot made him do it

229 replies

miri1985 · 15/12/2017 01:37

www.theargus.co.uk/news/15768693.Salesman_in_sports_bra_exposed_himself_in_children___s_play_area/

Don't worry this kind of thing never happens!

OP posts:
laudanum · 15/12/2017 02:40

PSA:

A fetish for wearing women's clothing does not equate to them being trans, which is what your thinly veiled snipe is really about.

He is a disgusting person, and I hope his life is forever ruined, but the constant anti-trans bullshit on here is sickening.

RavenLG · 15/12/2017 03:02

laudanum

Said perfectly. [applause]

Original poster
miri1985 · 15/12/2017 03:11

Thanks for telling me what my point was, thats really helpful!

How do you know this person isn't trans? The GRA is trying to take away the requirement for any kind of medical diagnosis associated with being trans which equates it to little more than wanting to wear womens/mens clothes and call yourself that.

The actual reason I posted it was that people say we shouldn't question when someone enters single sex spaces. Regardless of whether you think this is a real trans person or not, apparently you can tell the difference , I sure as hell can't.

If the GRA goes through, this man could go out tomorrow, get himself a cert without any medical treatment and have a right to be in womens spaces without question.

You may see it as transphobia to require someone to have to jump through some hoops and seek some treatment but I don't

OP posts:
Battleax · 15/12/2017 03:23

A fetish for wearing women's clothing does not equate to them being trans, which is what your thinly veiled snipe is really about.

Oh but it does. Stonewall' definition of trans;

Trans – an umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth. Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) Transgender, Transsexual, Gender-queer (GQ), Gender-fluid, Non-binary, Gender-variant, Crossdresser, Genderless, Agender, Nongender, Third gender, Two-spirit, Bi-gender, Trans man, Trans woman,Trans masculine, Trans feminine and Neutrois.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms

Battleax · 15/12/2017 03:25

So he's definitely got the full protection of the trans label and the gender recognition agenda while he goes about his unwholesome activities.

Not that it's permitted to recognise the existence of such phenomena.

Battleax · 15/12/2017 03:32

Does that shed any light on what some of us are concerned about laud?

You clearly thought it a scurrilous suggestion that a fetishistic behaviour should be classified as part of transsexualism.

Thermostatpolice · 15/12/2017 05:59

A fetish for wearing women's clothing does not equate to them being trans

The tragedy is that we all agree with you.

We know about gender dysphoria. We disagree with Stonewall that this person is trans. We're on the same side as you!

We don't think that predatory people like him should be able to legally self ID as female with no gatekeeping (which is what the GRA would mean). Can you imagine this man working in a protected single-sex role such as rape counsellor? Female carer? Living in a women's hostel? Because as a woman this is what he would be able to do. And nobody would be able to stop him.

Unbelievable as it is, this is what is being proposed.

ZigZagandDustin · 15/12/2017 06:13

Hear hear @Laudanum.

OP you are throwing low punches.

ZigZagandDustin · 15/12/2017 06:16

I got to be a woman with no gatekeeping. As did you Thermo. How do we know that you are not some predator? Oh yes, that's right! You'd be judged on your behaviour and if you did something predatory you'd face the law.

morningrunner · 15/12/2017 06:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ZigZagandDustin · 15/12/2017 06:26

No further comment thanks anyway for your kind and measured offer of a 'discussion'. If you can't see what was wrong with the OP, and saw it as another one of the many opportunities on mumsnet to tar trans people as perverts and predators, you have some personal reflection to do.

PaintingByNumbers · 15/12/2017 06:30

Just tarring them with the same brush as men in general, isnt it, when we create single sex spaces. When 98% of sex crimes, for instance, are commited by males, it isnt sexist to say sex crimes are committed almost exclusively by males. For instance. In dresses, in trousers, in shorts, who cares....

Thermostatpolice · 15/12/2017 06:31

I got to be a woman with no gatekeeping. As did you Thermo. How do we know that you are not some predator? Oh yes, that's right! You'd be judged on your behaviour and if you did something predatory you'd face the law.

Wait, what? You do know that males commit violent and sexual crimes at astronomical rates in comparison to females, right? What makes you think that predatory men won't take advantage of a lack of gatekeeping?

This isn't about people with gender dysphoria. It's about predatory men.

ZigZagandDustin · 15/12/2017 06:34

Yes, it's about criminals. So what the fuck are you going on and on about trans people for.

Thermostatpolice · 15/12/2017 06:36

Good grief ZIgZag. Of course it's about criminals and not trans people. That's the whole point. We're saying the same thing.

Thermostatpolice · 15/12/2017 06:37

Clarification: we agree that being trans does not make one a criminal. The difference is that I don't believe that predatory men should be allowed to self ID as women.

sandy259 · 15/12/2017 06:42

ZigZagandDustin
There absolutely was gatekeeping for me to be a woman, the Dr didn't just close their eyes when I was born and randomly assign a sex

If you can't see what was wrong with the OP, and saw it as another one of the many opportunities on mumsnet to tar trans people as perverts and predators, you have some personal reflection to do.

Are you offended by the factual story or the title of the post which also seems factual? In case you haven't read before, woman are being told that natal males would never dress up as a woman to commit crimes.

If someone posts about the crimes of a man would you accuse them of trying to tar males as perverts and predators?

QOFE · 15/12/2017 06:50

Just to echo that this man is not trans.

I think we all agree on that.

He is a pervert with a thing for wearing womens clothing.

The proposed law changes would mean that if he said he was trans/really a woman, everyone would have to treat him as though that were true. He would be able to access womens toilets and changing rooms. Prisons, even, if he was convicted and sentenced to a prison term. His sexually motivated crimes would be recorded as having been committed by a woman, thus inflating the tiny numbers if female sex offenders and making it harder for us to name the issue of male sexual violence.

When all along he's just a bog standard cross dressing perve. Nothing special and certainly not a woman!

That's the whole point! Trans people, as in people with actual gender dysphoria who are undergoing treatment to help them live with and alleviate that, are not the problem.

InfiniteSheldon · 15/12/2017 06:52

There is gatekeeping before a newborn is identified as as female! It's a visual confirmation it is not a 50/50 guess.

Collidascope · 15/12/2017 06:53

Oh yes, that's right! You'd be judged on your behaviour and if you did something predatory you'd face the law.

The problem with this is that when it comes to sex crimes, most offenders never will face the law. It's very rare to actually get a conviction. Certainly none of the men who sexually assaulted me over the years were punished for it.

QOFE · 15/12/2017 06:54

@laudanum and @ZigZagAndDustin I am genuinely hoping you read this and respond.

The reason people are "going on about trans" is precisely because this perve will, if the law is changed, be able to claim certain legal protections for his fetish and his pervey behaviour by claiming through self identification to be trans.

And that will harm not only women and children but genuinely trans people. I don't want to see that happen.

Sensimilla · 15/12/2017 07:02

I got to be a woman with no gatekeeping. As did you Thermo. How do we know that you are not some predator? Oh yes, that's right! You'd be judged on your behaviour and if you did something predatory you'd face the law

Im interested in this point, you taised zig. Ive heard this said many many times as a reason women are unreasonable for objecting to TIMs in womens spaces. But why doesnt this apply to TIMs using the correct/male facilities? By this logic TIMs shoild not be assuming that all men are ptedatory/violent. They should be judging them individually on their behaviour and invoking the law if necessary.

PaintingByNumbers · 15/12/2017 07:36

Theres no evidence that transpeople behave any differently to their born sex when it comes to sexual offences. Its an interesting area, why do men commit 98% of sexual offenses? nature or nurture?

StealthPolarBear · 15/12/2017 07:40

Please can people read qofe post

StealthPolarBear · 15/12/2017 07:40

I bet they won't though