Feeling sad & weary that feminists & trans women are constantly pitted against one another?

[SmiledWithTheRisingSun]

That's it really.

Instinctively I feel very protective of feminism and all that those incredibly brave women before us achieved. Thanks Nanna 💛

I totally support the idea of protecting women only spaces and don't obviously want a bunch of women-hating rapists in female prisons etc

BUT... surely there's a happy medium to be found ladies?!

Surely there must be reasonable people in the trans community who understand the need to protect all that feminism has achieved?

The same way that I'm a white middle aged woman who doesn't feel the need to demand entrance to a black feminist group. I can support their right to exist without being undermined by it.

What to we call these feminist / trans sympathisers? Please enlighten me wise MNERS.

Love from,
A middle aged feminist who wishes you all peace and love X

He was aghast that this was happening in University.

It's happening. We are being silenced.

I'm a SAHM so no risk of me losing my job because of my gender critical views but when having a discussion about trump banning transgender people from the US army ( all I actually said was how funny I thought it was that all the lefty anti imperialist pacifists were fighting for people's rights to kill people ) with my parents, my dad - old school lefty - called me a homophobic bigot who had no right to involve myself in trans people's lives. It hurt frankly, I was horrified that someone who's known me my whole life would think that by me not being 100% pro trans meant I was on the same level as say the BNP...its shaken my confidence in discussing it in RL with anyone else except my partner ( who agrees with me) my relationship with my dad has completely broken down and we haven't spoken in months....

@blackdog I read your other posts, and was aghast. I don't envy you the tightrope you have to walk.

Could the young women who positively don't want to share with men claim a religious grounds for this? Religion is also a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act isn't it? Sudden conversions to evangelical Christianity/Judaism/Islam?

Another de-lurker.

I've reached peak-trans. I just want to add my thanks to all of your well reasoned, thought out and evidenced posts.

I'll keep reading, I'll keep learning, I'll keep questioning.

Thank you, please keep it up (even though it must be exhausting sometimes)

Thanks for the welcome comments.

I've read nearly all the threads on this issue and have learnt an incredible amount, I admire all the posters who continually post polite, coherent, researched and informative posts in the face of all the baiting, repetition and whatabouterry, frankly I'd have combusted long ago.

One thing I've repeatedly noticed on all the many threads is that the perfectly type of posters completely ignore posts by transwomen who are against the GRA, critical of the activities of the TRA and are supportive of the posters on here. Whenever a transwoman posts on here and poses questions to the likes of perfectly they never respond, it is just tumbleweed, they don't even acknowledge their existence (how ironic). Also, the perfectlys of this world never seem to read any of the links to people like Miranda Yardley. So, despite screaming for equality and insisting, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that the feminist view on here is to deny transwomen exist they refuse to listen or interact with the transwomen on here and elsewhere. Not only are they prepared to sacrifice women on the altar of the GRA they are prepared to sacrifice the very transwomen they claim to be so supportive and inclusive of.

Perfectly's partner must have de-regged her from Mumsnet again.

Motherofdaughters- you have my sympathy. It hurts when someone who has known you for so long doesn't take a moment to think "Hang on, if MoD is saying this, is there something more that I need to know?'

Give your dad a copy of the Sages info.
sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

Blimey I can see why the OP hasn't come back! There is really no room for manoeuvre is there.

I thought you were the OP...

Nope, and I can see why the other liberals haven't returned! I am a pretty robust person but it's not been much fun.

liberals? what kind of liberal? liberal relationship with reality?

Since you're here new perfectly fancy answering any of my simple questions from earlier? Or old Perfectly could.

I'm sure now perfectly and blackdog are here together, perfectly will be able to come up with a solution for black dogs problem for her.

liberal relationship with reality

The OP returned ages ago to the thread and said this:

SmiledWithTheRisingSun Fri 15-Dec-17 06:51:03
Thanks for all the responses.

I am not as well informed as some if you clearly are in all the terms used here so please do forgive my ignorance.
Would it be accurate then to liken this Vocal/violentTran Activism to Radical Islam? It seems to me that, just as it is unfair to judge most peaceful Muslims upon the actions of a few lunatics, the same could be said for the trans community?

Also, call me a TERF if you will, but clearly a "third space" is the obvious answer as others have mentioned

Thanks for the invitation MrsTerryPratchett but to be perfectly honest I’ve been drinking and I’ll only make a tit of myself.

perfectly have you been on a 48 hour bender?

yes I know that was a low blow, please report me, sorry HQ

fair enough.

Anyway perfectly I'm currently have a myself - cheers!

The bathroom issue is interesting to me. Because I do not want a shared bathroom space.

I'm with you, Datun. I think the only chance we have of women's rights being safeguarded is if we are considered to have unique needs which require sex based protections. Including toilets. And I realise this needs a pressure campaign. I really don't think we can afford to concede anything. I'm happy for there to be a third unisex option for people who want it. That's what we should join up to push for.

Cheers feminist fatales! happy Christmas.

Been told in RL (not on a YouTube video) that to not want cock is transphobic?

Every single one of my lesbian friends has been told this. One was even seriously assaulted over the issue. And I know a lot of lesbians as I spend a lot of time on the gay scene. So yes, this is happening, whether you want to believe it or not.

You say this has not happened to you, great. Good for you. But its happening to others. In droves. maybe its my area that has a higher proportion of pisstaking 'transtrenders' (with female penises) or something. But I really doubt its just my area.

I am questioning whether I am a feminist at all which seems utterly crazy and I wonder if other lurkers are feeling the same.

I was a lurker. It was the well thought out arguments on this topic that actually persuaded me to post on the feminist boards. I also used to think (and this is embarrassing) that feminists were all hairy legged bra burning angry man haters and that I disagreed with everything they stood for Luckily, reading more on here changed that opinion, and I would now class myself as a radical feminist. I cannot believe I was so ignorant, and so stupid before.

I also used to think (and this is embarrassing) that feminists were all hairy legged bra burning angry man haters

That's the power of propaganda for you eh?

However I am rather fond of hairy legged bra burning angry man haters