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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A letter to the TERFs

653 replies

Helen1111 · 13/12/2017 18:36

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To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet, in the name of women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, when the world you wish for has come to pass, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and the trans woman by the bed next to you, who was with her wife every step of the way is consistently humiliated, dehumanised and denied her true value as a mother, because the best people can manage is to call her a facsimile of a woman, a pseudo-father, and she wishes that just for once, at this most transformative of moments, they would call her a woman, a mother, because that's what she is. But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.

Remember me when your trans neighbour, who is waiting to have children before he starts hormone therapy, gives birth, and feels vulnerable and exposed, because the one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress.". Remember me when the doctors refuse to let your trans cousin see a female doctor, because they won’t record her sex as ‘female.’ Remember me when they laugh at her genitalia, when strangers ask to see what’s under her dress, when they force her to show them, even though her body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who is still reeling from you declaring her “lost to dementia” despite being every bit a feeling, thinking human being, goes into a care home and, despite having lived as a woman all her adult life, is called Sam, and cared for with the men. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that she is Susan, and you know she is your mother, but you cannot object, and can only sit by while her confusion is compounded with depression, anxiety and grief.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because transphobic mothers won’t allow her to run in the girls' race, but she can't go into the boys' changing rooms for fear of being beaten, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, she will never be allowed to compete, or even if she does, people would never accept her victories.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. She’s put in the hours, she’s worked so hard, she knows she deserves it. And the position goes to Lola, who has spent the last year subjecting her to transphobic bullying her at every opportunity, and making her life so miserable that she’s considered suicide more than once. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights. Remember me too, when vulnerable trans women, who look for all the world like you and me, are locked up in male prisons and cannot escape, even though they are imprisoned with the very people who abused them and drove them to the edge.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas, and he tells you that this was the first time he ever felt like there was a truly place for him in the world. But then his teacher told him it is wrong and immoral to be like this. And you realise that all this time, when you preached transphobia, you were teaching others that your son was wrong, was a misogynist in women’s clothing. And you realise that your son, your wonderful, unique, son, will only be happy when you accept him as your daughter. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that your son is depressed, that he is being bullied by people who were once his friends, but she doesn't want to have to involve their parents in this, because it’s really just a lifestyle choice and people should be free to tell him what they think of him, after all it’s really just protecting the rights of the girls in the class. But you are afraid – of yourself, your son, your friends, and you don’t know what to do.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transphobic friends, the ones who called trans women “six foot men with stubble in a dress” and yet still claimed these ‘men’ were “benefitting from the patriarchy.” Look around and maybe you will finally see that this has cost trans women everything, it has made the world a harder, crueller place for them, and yet they still did this. Despite the odds, the pain, the abuse, despite never being considered to be one thing or another, they still chose to live as women.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for all our rights. Fighting to tell you that you do not do this in my name. Fighting to undo the damage.

Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ErrolTheDragon · 31/12/2018 13:18

My MIL (who didn't have dementia but did sometimes have periods of confusion) always went by her middle name as she didn't like her first name. Until she ended up in hospital and then a care home, where they started using her first name and she didn't want to be a nuisance and correct them.

It should be a matter of standard practice - which I've seen operating elsewhere- that patients and people in care should be addressed by their preferred name. My DM preferred being called Mrs, not her first name, by people she didn't know well, FIL used a shortened form - respecting people's wishes in that regard can be achieved quite simply in most settings and should be done regardless of trans status or not.

If 'Sam' wants to be Sam, so be it - but if it becomes apparent they've forgotten being Sam and would be more comfortable as Sarah then that needs to be sensitively respected too.

Vegilante · 31/12/2018 13:28

HomeStar - you are kind to thank me, but all I did was copy & paste the link from another page on this thread. All credit should go to carrotandcornsoup the author of that prescient post.

terryleather · 31/12/2018 13:28

Here's a link to a previous discussion on FWR wrt dementia care for trans people.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3191922-Dementia-Care-for-Transgender-People

Our old friend Sally Hines name comes up as having "been working in the field of transgender care practices for a long time".

FloralBunting · 31/12/2018 13:30

Absolutely. I've never been in any situation where people refused to call someone by their preferred name, even it wasn't their legal one. It's a basic courtesy to ask "What can I call you?"

In fact, I've never yet met a poster on these boards who would refuse that to a trans person - except perhaps to someone who was on the feckin' windup like Huntley choosing the name of the mother of one of his victims.

VickyEadie · 31/12/2018 13:46

In fact, I've never yet met a poster on these boards who would refuse that to a trans person - except perhaps to someone who was on the feckin' windup like Huntley choosing the name of the mother of one of his victims.

Indeed. In Huntley's case, of course, we reserve the right to address him as "You child molesting, murdering bastard."

Katvonbatshit · 31/12/2018 14:10

Ha. This was a good one to bump

A letter to the TERFs
Trinity333 · 31/12/2018 14:15

Complete self absorbed narcissism. What about the girls who have also been training hard only to have a male bodied person come along and compete with them? Sorry forgot, they should just be kind and accept it, their training, hopes and dreams mean nothing to people like you, they exist just to affirm the trans person. If you have a problem with boy’s behaviour take it up with them, tell them to be kinder. Pure narcissistic emotional blackmail, so transparent. Do keep posting shit like this though, you are doing our job for us.

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2018 14:40

Have you not got anything more original or persuasive or logical in your armoury, OP, that you have to take something a woman wrote and mangle and distort it until it's a) senseless and b) exposes how much you envy and despise women?

That would be a no.

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2018 14:51

But cheers Helen and whichever other woman hater dredged up your absurd DARVO gibberish, as I have read again the fantastic original post by carrotandcornsoup. So thanks for that Wine

merrymouse · 31/12/2018 14:58

The problem with the hypothetical scenario where you meet a trans man in the loo is that self ID wouldn't stop somebody with a beard, jeans and t-shirt using the woman's loo, whatever their sex. It is however less threatening when they are biologically female.

MrsFogi · 31/12/2018 15:07

Nope sorry I got lost and gave up at the trans cousin not being able to see a female doctor. I can't work out who is a man and who is a woman in the OP.........
[where is the bollocks smiley?]

RedKite96 · 31/12/2018 15:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AncientLights · 31/12/2018 15:30

It just does not work the way our friend Helen1111 writes it. It's clearly nonsense, while showing clearly how we (women) are expected to put everyone else before us and our needs. I can't say I bothered to finish it either as I'd got so confused about the mother called Sam who is now being cared for in the men's bit of the home - male mother then? Nah, don't think so.

Juells · 31/12/2018 15:32

MotorwayMingebag Thu 14-Dec-17 12:51:42

I am very familiar with the Martin Ponting/Jessica Winfield case and I can tell you that it was a long process before that individual was put into a women's prison. It did not happen overnight and without the appropriate risk assessment. There are policies and processes currently in place around the handling of Transgender prisoners that are there specifically to protect natal-female prisoners. Those same policies will remain even after any GRA reforms. Common sense and respect for all human life is not going out the window.

What a difference a year makes. From "That will never happen" to hand-waving away with "Well he can't have been really trans" (which is exactly what GC people have been saying would happen.)

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

merrymouse · 31/12/2018 15:39

It's very difficult to work out what rights are being denied in any of these scenarios.

But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.
Nobody has a right to be a mother, but fathers also make perfectly good parents. Either way it is impossible to change sex.

The one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress."
This would be illegal. Trans people have rights that protect them from discrimination. In some situations a patient has a right to choose the sex of a HCP. A trans person would be treated the same as anybody else of the same sex. There are a few sex based exemptions in the equalities act and this is one of them.

Remember me when your elderly mother...
Again, there is no reason why protecting the right of people to receive or give intimate care to somebody of the same sex should make it impossible to give appropriate care to an elderly trans person.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion.
Happy to be corrected on this one, but I think that in the UK positive discrimination is illegal and you would have to give the board position to the person most qualified for the job. There are special rules that allow All woman shortlists, but it's difficult to imagine a situation where a board member for a company could only be female. What you can do is recognise the specific reasons that there are few female board members and take steps to address that - unless you create legislation that makes it impossible to explain what a woman is, as appears to have been done in Scotland.

Harassment is illegal.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights.
It's amazing that in all these scenarios the people identified as a threat aren't the people actually carrying out the raping, murdering and beating.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex
Except people can't change sex.

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2018 15:53

The problem with the hypothetical scenario where you meet a trans man in the loo is that self ID wouldn't stop somebody with a beard, jeans and t-shirt using the woman's loo, whatever their sex. It is however less threatening when they are biologically female.

This. It's the fatal flaw in their brilliant gotcha.

Trinity333 · 31/12/2018 16:06

Nobody should be learning at school that people can change sex. Is this the next step that TRAs will be pushing for? The scenario you give shows exactly why this should never happen.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 31/12/2018 20:45

What a puddle of malodorous drivel, Helen1111. Fun watching it wiped up so comprehensively though.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 31/12/2018 20:58

Here's to 2019, my fellow GC posters, now with added terfiness.

Qcng · 31/12/2018 22:15

It's reassuring to know that this post, if posted today, would have been removed for the use of the term 'TERF'

Here's to 2019 and Justine MN Wine Flowers

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2018 23:08

Happy New Year everyone! Here's to a very terfy 2019 Wine

VaggieMight · 31/12/2018 23:18

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at poster's request.

adultFemaleElf · 31/12/2018 23:29

None of the OP made any sense and I can’t even really blame the sherry.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 01/01/2019 07:51

Happy 2019 to everyone at MNHQ! (And everyone else, of course.)

samsamsamsamsamsam · 02/01/2019 23:52

Hilarious