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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A letter to the TERFs

653 replies

Helen1111 · 13/12/2017 18:36

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To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet, in the name of women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, when the world you wish for has come to pass, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and the trans woman by the bed next to you, who was with her wife every step of the way is consistently humiliated, dehumanised and denied her true value as a mother, because the best people can manage is to call her a facsimile of a woman, a pseudo-father, and she wishes that just for once, at this most transformative of moments, they would call her a woman, a mother, because that's what she is. But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.

Remember me when your trans neighbour, who is waiting to have children before he starts hormone therapy, gives birth, and feels vulnerable and exposed, because the one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress.". Remember me when the doctors refuse to let your trans cousin see a female doctor, because they won’t record her sex as ‘female.’ Remember me when they laugh at her genitalia, when strangers ask to see what’s under her dress, when they force her to show them, even though her body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who is still reeling from you declaring her “lost to dementia” despite being every bit a feeling, thinking human being, goes into a care home and, despite having lived as a woman all her adult life, is called Sam, and cared for with the men. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that she is Susan, and you know she is your mother, but you cannot object, and can only sit by while her confusion is compounded with depression, anxiety and grief.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because transphobic mothers won’t allow her to run in the girls' race, but she can't go into the boys' changing rooms for fear of being beaten, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, she will never be allowed to compete, or even if she does, people would never accept her victories.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. She’s put in the hours, she’s worked so hard, she knows she deserves it. And the position goes to Lola, who has spent the last year subjecting her to transphobic bullying her at every opportunity, and making her life so miserable that she’s considered suicide more than once. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights. Remember me too, when vulnerable trans women, who look for all the world like you and me, are locked up in male prisons and cannot escape, even though they are imprisoned with the very people who abused them and drove them to the edge.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas, and he tells you that this was the first time he ever felt like there was a truly place for him in the world. But then his teacher told him it is wrong and immoral to be like this. And you realise that all this time, when you preached transphobia, you were teaching others that your son was wrong, was a misogynist in women’s clothing. And you realise that your son, your wonderful, unique, son, will only be happy when you accept him as your daughter. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that your son is depressed, that he is being bullied by people who were once his friends, but she doesn't want to have to involve their parents in this, because it’s really just a lifestyle choice and people should be free to tell him what they think of him, after all it’s really just protecting the rights of the girls in the class. But you are afraid – of yourself, your son, your friends, and you don’t know what to do.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transphobic friends, the ones who called trans women “six foot men with stubble in a dress” and yet still claimed these ‘men’ were “benefitting from the patriarchy.” Look around and maybe you will finally see that this has cost trans women everything, it has made the world a harder, crueller place for them, and yet they still did this. Despite the odds, the pain, the abuse, despite never being considered to be one thing or another, they still chose to live as women.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for all our rights. Fighting to tell you that you do not do this in my name. Fighting to undo the damage.

Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Italiangreyhound · 15/12/2017 08:17

@MotorwayMingebag if a risk assessment says the a male who raped teenage girls should be put in a prison with women I would say it is fundamentally flawed. If such an individual with such a history is not deemed a risk to women I have no confidence at all that the system is even able to identify what a risk to women looks like.

Would you be happy sharing a female prison with a rapist? Be honest.

And even if you would be, what right have you to inflict that individual on a population of the most vulnerable women?

PencilsInSpace · 15/12/2017 08:57

I'm a few pages behind so I don't know if this has been said but it's really important -

LangCleg said I do think some aspects of the current process to obtain a GRC could do with revising. I don't think there should be significant costs for low-income people, for example.

It costs £140 and there is a fee waiver for people on a low income.

Also, my own friend had a bad experience appearing before the panel to obtain a GRC.

Almost all applications are decided 'on paper' and the vast majority are granted a GRC. It's extremely rare that someone has to appear before the panel.

If we are being asked to believe the GRA, and the process for getting a GRC, needs reform then it's important to understand what the current process is (govt. guide here, it's also worth reading the full guidance linked from that page). I've seen a few things about it being prohibitively expensive and about it being humiliating because you have to appear in front of a panel. This is propaganda.

LangCleg · 15/12/2017 09:21

PencilsInSpace

Thank you for that. The friend I am talking about got a GRC very early on, so if things have changed, this is something we all need to know.

Missymoo100 · 15/12/2017 11:01

"Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas"

OP the above is a lie and I don't want children being taught this.

Flowerpot1234 · 15/12/2017 11:15

Missymoo100
"Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex.."
OP the above is a lie and I don't want children being taught this.

Precisely. They still have the building blocks of their sex that determines their sex and as much as personality and influences behaviour: men have XY chromosomes.

Nothing changes that. Nothing. XY always remains XY. Men will always remain men.

HermioneWeasley · 15/12/2017 16:16

Disability assessments are hugely intrusive, I don’t see what’s so unreasonable about th current GRC process

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2017 16:22

No neither do I. Apparently there is a fee waiver scheme for people on a low income.

cromeyellow0 · 15/12/2017 16:50

90% of applications for GRC are successful.
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/597905/tribunal-grc-statistics-q3-2016-2017.pdf

NettleTea · 15/12/2017 17:02

@DN4GeekinDerby I have messaged you xx

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 15/12/2017 17:15

Disability assessments are hugely intrusive, I don’t see what’s so unreasonable about th current GRC process

Very good point. Women also have to endure tremendously intrusive things from a medical POV (which reminds me I need to book my bloody smear test). My friend just had a cervical biopsy with no pain relief. Welcome to womanhood. Don't want a few questions about why you believe you're a woman? Tough shit I'm afraid. Suck it up buttercup.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/12/2017 17:18

"Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas"

OP the above is a lie and I don't want children being taught this

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3109333-What-do-you-think-of-the-Gender-Unicorn

Quetiapina · 15/12/2017 20:54

Mawkish, unoriginal and self obsessed. Transnarrative is misogynistic and racist also. We live in a multicultural UK. How many women from ALL cultures will be unable to make use of female private spaces if it cannot be guaranteed there will be no adult males ( you know, the ones with penises) present. Rape suites, toilets, D V hostels, changing rooms, hospital wards, Psychiatric units, gynae exams etc. Trans people have human rights, they are equal, but need their own spaces where their needs are understood. Women need our spaces.

MacaroonMama · 15/12/2017 21:37

Wow, so much to think about. When first read the OP, I had the horrible sensation of feeling like I was one of the baddies (because I am gender critical and very much against the reforms suggested.) Thank goodness I persisted with the thread, and got to the sensible reiteration of why it is so important to keep women's rights and women's spaces.

In all honesty, I imagine lots of us feel the same - it is hard feeling that our actions may cause people to suffer, but I genuinely don't think we are causing any suffering!

If we can show people how crackpot the suggested changes are, all women will be safe (safer). Transsexuals hopefully will continue to get proper medical treatment to help them with the gender dysphoria and other mental health issues that often coexist. Children will not be fed a toxic cocktail of anti-science and off-the-internet hormones.

And the crazed snarling TAs/MRAs? They will not suffer. They will have to play for the men's team. They will not be allowed to wander naked in the women's changing room at the gym. They may even learn that the world does not revolve around men.

Datun I think you said 'feminists are analysts.' I hadn't really thought of that before. But the amount of analysis that backs up our position here is incredible - the government should be paying some people as the hard graft is being done for them! The studies, research, analysis of statistics, etc is so heartening (esp for me, I am far too emotional/instinctive, and of course that won't win people over!)

Back to the OP. Emotionally manipulative - but it all falls apart under scrutiny. I am not a hateful person. In fact, I am as soft as a Tunnock's teacake. But women have precious little as it is, and I will defend what we have - if my strength is seen as hateful, that is your problem OP and not mine.

Thermostatpolice · 15/12/2017 22:31

ringle sorry, I'm a bit late coming back with a link to the gender critical resources thread, but here it is:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2877199-Gender-Critical-Reference-Thread?pg=1&order=

RogueBiscuit · 15/12/2017 22:57

I can't stand the word transwoman.

Italiangreyhound · 15/12/2017 23:53

DN4GeekinDerby your post at "Thu 14-Dec-17 13:36:47" is excellent, sad, moving and strong. Thinking of you.

FirstLesson · 16/12/2017 00:23

You lost me at "(and the best midwife on the ward)".

Why would someone being trans make them a better midwife?

IMO we should all live and let live, but stop over dramatising and generalising these issues. You're writing a dramatic fictional story- let's deal with the issues at hand, not dwell on a fictional future.

Aeroflotgirl · 16/12/2017 00:31

Not very original are you op. Some of this does not make sense.

AsMenDclaredWomenTheirInferior · 16/12/2017 05:14

Women and girls do not have safe spaces,
what they have are merely cages,
where men have cornered them in.

Men are wolves at the door and foaming from their mouths
baying for women and girls flesh and blood.

hipsterfun · 16/12/2017 11:37

Erm, NAMALT Grin

Aelinor1 · 31/12/2018 03:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ICJump · 31/12/2018 05:11

Zombie

SophoclesTheFox · 31/12/2018 06:48

Thanks for bumping such a cracking thread, aelinor.

It's well worth another read (or maybe you might want to read it for the first time, as you clearly didn't).

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 31/12/2018 07:02

Women still don't have penises Aelinor. It's neither selfish nor cruel to acknowledge that fact.

Poppyred85 · 31/12/2018 07:11

I don’t care what’s between another woman’s legs. I do care what’s between a male’s legs if I, or other women or children, are being asked to share spaces where we are vulnerable with them.

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