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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

A letter to the TERFs

653 replies

Helen1111 · 13/12/2017 18:36

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To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet, in the name of women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, when the world you wish for has come to pass, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and the trans woman by the bed next to you, who was with her wife every step of the way is consistently humiliated, dehumanised and denied her true value as a mother, because the best people can manage is to call her a facsimile of a woman, a pseudo-father, and she wishes that just for once, at this most transformative of moments, they would call her a woman, a mother, because that's what she is. But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.

Remember me when your trans neighbour, who is waiting to have children before he starts hormone therapy, gives birth, and feels vulnerable and exposed, because the one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress.". Remember me when the doctors refuse to let your trans cousin see a female doctor, because they won’t record her sex as ‘female.’ Remember me when they laugh at her genitalia, when strangers ask to see what’s under her dress, when they force her to show them, even though her body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who is still reeling from you declaring her “lost to dementia” despite being every bit a feeling, thinking human being, goes into a care home and, despite having lived as a woman all her adult life, is called Sam, and cared for with the men. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that she is Susan, and you know she is your mother, but you cannot object, and can only sit by while her confusion is compounded with depression, anxiety and grief.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because transphobic mothers won’t allow her to run in the girls' race, but she can't go into the boys' changing rooms for fear of being beaten, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, she will never be allowed to compete, or even if she does, people would never accept her victories.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. She’s put in the hours, she’s worked so hard, she knows she deserves it. And the position goes to Lola, who has spent the last year subjecting her to transphobic bullying her at every opportunity, and making her life so miserable that she’s considered suicide more than once. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights. Remember me too, when vulnerable trans women, who look for all the world like you and me, are locked up in male prisons and cannot escape, even though they are imprisoned with the very people who abused them and drove them to the edge.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas, and he tells you that this was the first time he ever felt like there was a truly place for him in the world. But then his teacher told him it is wrong and immoral to be like this. And you realise that all this time, when you preached transphobia, you were teaching others that your son was wrong, was a misogynist in women’s clothing. And you realise that your son, your wonderful, unique, son, will only be happy when you accept him as your daughter. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that your son is depressed, that he is being bullied by people who were once his friends, but she doesn't want to have to involve their parents in this, because it’s really just a lifestyle choice and people should be free to tell him what they think of him, after all it’s really just protecting the rights of the girls in the class. But you are afraid – of yourself, your son, your friends, and you don’t know what to do.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transphobic friends, the ones who called trans women “six foot men with stubble in a dress” and yet still claimed these ‘men’ were “benefitting from the patriarchy.” Look around and maybe you will finally see that this has cost trans women everything, it has made the world a harder, crueller place for them, and yet they still did this. Despite the odds, the pain, the abuse, despite never being considered to be one thing or another, they still chose to live as women.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for all our rights. Fighting to tell you that you do not do this in my name. Fighting to undo the damage.

Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.

OP posts:
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Afternooncatnap · 14/12/2017 17:15

I think to say a trans woman can't be described as a mother is unfair. If a lesbian couple had a baby together you would still refer to them both as the mother. Being a mum is more than pushing the baby out.I also can't see why anyone would refuse to let the trans woman be called mum.

But its really not the concern of the other women on the ward as the op seems to think it should be.

In regards to prisons. Would you let a fully surgically transitioned woman go in a woman's prison? I don't think it would be right for them to be in the normal male prison population. I imagine solitary is more expensive and a harsher punishment. Would it need to be assessed on a case by case basis? I always just think of the trans woman in orange is the new black.

Datun · 14/12/2017 17:21

DN4GeekinDerby

I have just read your account. What ever one’s stance on this issue, your candid explanation of your experiences has the indisputable ring of veracity.

Coming at it from the position you do, I am both saddened by, and grateful for, that post.

You are not the first person to describe how different things were a few years ago.

I have read narratives from transwomen saying how cross dressers kept it confined, either to the home or to the community.

How transexuals accessing female facilities would only be done through a system of courtesy, or if know one would know. Not done in order to make huge song and dance.

And, the transwomen are women rhetoric was nowhere to be seen.

What is your take on why it has changed? If that’s not too personal a question.

IrkThePurist · 14/12/2017 17:24

DN4GeekinDerby Flowers

I think your post deserves a thread of its own.

Datun · 14/12/2017 17:28

I always just think of the trans woman in orange is the new black.

Orange is the new Black is a TV show.

Laverne Cox, the trans star of the show, wrote a letter supporting Cynthia Blast, a rapist and child murderer who abused the corpse of the 13-year-old child he raped and murdered. Because he came out as trans.

Cox wrote of her support in getting this man transferred to a female prison.

“Orange Is The New Black actor Laverne Cox launched a public campaign this week in support of a male incarcerated for the rape and murder of a thirteen-year-old girl and abuse of her corpse, because that man now considers himself to be “transgender”.

Cox uses the fame generated by recent acting success in an attempt to create sympathy for the convicted child-killer and his quest to medically feminate and be transferred to a female prison. “I want my voice to be heard, I want my dreams to matter, I want people to know who I am because tomorrow is not promised,” reads Cox.”

gendertrender.wordpress.com/?s=Laverne+cox&submit=Search

GrockleBocs · 14/12/2017 17:30

Would you let a fully surgically transitioned woman go in a woman's prison?
I don't think anyone has said that shouldn't happen.

Datun · 14/12/2017 17:32

In regards to prisons. Would you let a fully surgically transitioned woman go in a woman's prison?

Surgical transition does not alter male pattern criminality.

Granted, there isn’t a penis.

But a man has to do very little to intimidate a women. A lascivious look, a hand gesture, it’s incredibly easy. We have all been in a situation where a flick of the eyebrow can make us feel uncomfortable.

Men who surgically transition still retain a sex drive.

And, very few men have genital surgery. Approx 15 percent.

Afternooncatnap · 14/12/2017 17:33

Datun
Wow, I did not know that. That is fucked up.

I know it's only a TV show but sometimes fiction can help us to emphasise with people or situations we may never experience in rl.

What if said trans woman had not committed a violent crime, was in for drugs or prostitution?

Afternooncatnap · 14/12/2017 17:36

I cross posted

Datun · 14/12/2017 17:38

What if said trans woman had not committed a violent crime, was in for drugs or prostitution?

There is probably a debate to be had around a mild transwoman who is uncomfortable in the male estate.

Personally, I just know how the presence of a man alters the dynamic. That may not be enough, though.

Along with every other issue about female space, I would like to see a third option. Or a third section in a prison.

The problem is, there is no money.

When men are the ones to commit 98 percent of sexually violent crime, and you are relying on them to tell you how they feel, and why they should transfer prison, it’s a minefield.

Datun · 14/12/2017 17:41

Afternooncatnap

I don’t want to see a man who identifies as a woman and is inside for fraud being picked on by homophobic gits in prison.

But what about gay men? Old men? Men with mental health issues?

Vulnerable prisoners need to be accommodated. I just don’t think they should be accommodated in the female estate.

Scorbus · 14/12/2017 17:43

The female estate is also v ey small compared to the male estate. If there are an influx of trans prisoners then it’s going to stretch those facilities to breaking point meaning safeguarding becomes impossible.

Afternooncatnap · 14/12/2017 17:44

I also think third space seems logical, definitely for prisons but I'm not sure on the practicality of the rest of society.

Afternooncatnap · 14/12/2017 17:46

But what about gay men? Old men? Men with mental health issues?

That's a good point. They can accommodate pedophiles vulnerability I'm prison after all. No reason the can't protect all vulnerable males in the male prisons, including trans males.

Datun · 14/12/2017 17:50

Afternooncatnap

It’s the same issue everywhere. Women have to budge up to accommodate men who identify as women. Why? Why should women take the hit because men are awful to each other?

BetsyM00 · 14/12/2017 18:47

MotorwayMingebag

Everyone seems to forget this, but the Scottish Prison Service already operates on a policy of self-declaration of gender. I see no evidence of any 'checks or balances'. Murderer Paris Green has been removed from two women's prisons for having sex with female inmates, and this utter delight Andrew Burns/Tiffany Scott/Mighty Almighty is currently in the women's house at Saughton. Female staff have refused to conduct strip searches and asked their union for assistance.

Given that the only high-security prison for women in Scotland is more or less shutting down as the country moves to smaller, help-based prisons, there is going to have to be a radical rethink when half of Barlinnie cotton on and change sex overnight.

I even believe it is mentioned in the Scottish consultation that £7 million (can't remember the exact sum) be spent on a non-binary prison!

YippeeKiYayMelonFarmer · 14/12/2017 18:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WTAFisthisshit · 14/12/2017 19:02

Fucking hell! How has that person in BetsyM00s link not been sectioned?

BertramTheWalrus · 14/12/2017 19:15

Just to say that your last sentence speaks volumes. It shows that you're a man, were socialised as a man and will never be able to undo that. It's disgusting, ending your confused diatribe with a threat. Fucking disgusting.

BatShite · 14/12/2017 19:54

I even believe it is mentioned in the Scottish consultation that £7 million (can't remember the exact sum) be spent on a non-binary prison!

I don't understand this at all. What an absolute waste of money that would be. Oh, lets build a separate area for days when you express yourself in a more feminine way. Tomorrow I want into the male areas, as I will be wearing trousers. Oh do fuck off, self obsessed narcissist snowflakes.

Mrswrex · 14/12/2017 20:17

I used to be quite angry about all this bullshit but I must admit I’m much more relaxed about it now.

Why?

Because every interview, every tweet, every woman hating sentence, brings TRA’s closer to the end of society’s tolerance for them.

(Note that I absolutely do not include people with gender dysmorphia, transvestites, people who just want to wear/do whatever and don’t subscribe to ‘gender’ rubbish. Though I do fear for the damage that will be caused to them depending on how long this demented denial of biology continues)

Before never hear the average person talking about transgender issues. They had no reason to.

Women, in particular, have usually been active in defending and shouting for tolerance for trans people. Perhaps some could say blindly, because something dark snuck in through the veil of ‘please, you must all accept me’ didn’t it?

You can feel a palpable change now though. I’m hearing women discussing this, and not as favourably as they used to.

And that’s where TRA’s have completely fucked up. They turned on women, the ones who were enabling them to play out their sick little fantasies. They had increased in number, thought they had the upper hand now, so shouted a big fuck you to us all.

For once, and god forbid, I never thought I’d say this, the Patriarchy might actually aid us.

Right now, the fact that Trans rights are set to infringe on women’s doesn’t bother many men in power, because it doesn’t bother the majority of men, it just isn’t on their radar.

Once enough ordinary men are aware of the fact that their wife/little girl/niece etc. is now expected to get changed next to a strapping six footer with a dick...won’t be long until the politicians are clamouring for his vote.

bluewoollyhat · 14/12/2017 20:19

I was just coming on to say what betsy said about self id already happening in Scottish prisons and to bring up the delightful Tiffany.
I totally agree he should be in Carstairs or similar. At the moment prison staff are able to refuse to do intimate searches of him, but potentially that could change if GRA changes are made as exceptions to the rules will be removed.

DN4 thanks for speaking out and sharing your experiences. It’s awful that you are being silenced in this way

lostplot · 14/12/2017 20:59

DN4 thank you so much for sharing, I can't even imagine what you are going through.

ferntwist · 14/12/2017 22:00

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

NotAgainYoda · 15/12/2017 05:36

Thank you RedToothBrush

NotAgainYoda · 15/12/2017 05:39

Great post DN4