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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A letter to the TERFs

653 replies

Helen1111 · 13/12/2017 18:36

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To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet, in the name of women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, when the world you wish for has come to pass, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and the trans woman by the bed next to you, who was with her wife every step of the way is consistently humiliated, dehumanised and denied her true value as a mother, because the best people can manage is to call her a facsimile of a woman, a pseudo-father, and she wishes that just for once, at this most transformative of moments, they would call her a woman, a mother, because that's what she is. But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.

Remember me when your trans neighbour, who is waiting to have children before he starts hormone therapy, gives birth, and feels vulnerable and exposed, because the one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress.". Remember me when the doctors refuse to let your trans cousin see a female doctor, because they won’t record her sex as ‘female.’ Remember me when they laugh at her genitalia, when strangers ask to see what’s under her dress, when they force her to show them, even though her body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who is still reeling from you declaring her “lost to dementia” despite being every bit a feeling, thinking human being, goes into a care home and, despite having lived as a woman all her adult life, is called Sam, and cared for with the men. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that she is Susan, and you know she is your mother, but you cannot object, and can only sit by while her confusion is compounded with depression, anxiety and grief.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because transphobic mothers won’t allow her to run in the girls' race, but she can't go into the boys' changing rooms for fear of being beaten, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, she will never be allowed to compete, or even if she does, people would never accept her victories.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. She’s put in the hours, she’s worked so hard, she knows she deserves it. And the position goes to Lola, who has spent the last year subjecting her to transphobic bullying her at every opportunity, and making her life so miserable that she’s considered suicide more than once. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights. Remember me too, when vulnerable trans women, who look for all the world like you and me, are locked up in male prisons and cannot escape, even though they are imprisoned with the very people who abused them and drove them to the edge.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas, and he tells you that this was the first time he ever felt like there was a truly place for him in the world. But then his teacher told him it is wrong and immoral to be like this. And you realise that all this time, when you preached transphobia, you were teaching others that your son was wrong, was a misogynist in women’s clothing. And you realise that your son, your wonderful, unique, son, will only be happy when you accept him as your daughter. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that your son is depressed, that he is being bullied by people who were once his friends, but she doesn't want to have to involve their parents in this, because it’s really just a lifestyle choice and people should be free to tell him what they think of him, after all it’s really just protecting the rights of the girls in the class. But you are afraid – of yourself, your son, your friends, and you don’t know what to do.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transphobic friends, the ones who called trans women “six foot men with stubble in a dress” and yet still claimed these ‘men’ were “benefitting from the patriarchy.” Look around and maybe you will finally see that this has cost trans women everything, it has made the world a harder, crueller place for them, and yet they still did this. Despite the odds, the pain, the abuse, despite never being considered to be one thing or another, they still chose to live as women.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for all our rights. Fighting to tell you that you do not do this in my name. Fighting to undo the damage.

Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.

OP posts:
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perfectlywretched · 13/12/2017 20:57

Thanks ringle - some of the hatred and mockery on here makes me ashamed to call myself a feminist so it's good to know there are others that feel the same.

AliceinReality222 · 13/12/2017 20:58

ROFL. Remember when the trans woman goes to a gynecologist for a prostate exam and is forced to face the unspeakable reality that he is a man. Oh, the humanity!!!

thebewilderness · 13/12/2017 20:58

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.
2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.
5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.
7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.
10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

genever · 13/12/2017 20:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Anlaf · 13/12/2017 20:59

the hardcore 'terfs' are railroading the other, reasonable, rational, empathetic, kind feminists on here into agreeing that anyone transgender is wrong and bad.

I don't think this is the case. I think perhaps you, like many of us once did, feel like challenging anything trans related is just mean, and picking on a vulnerable group.

I don't think people say trans people are bad. Wrong, yes sometimes: if a male person thinks they are really female, or a law is being pushed for which may negatively affect women's rights.

Disagreement isn't hate though.

I think when we (as feminists) campaign, we do need to consider your perception of how this comes across. See Germaine Greer, who modern feminists will declaim as a hatefilled bigot for saying transwomen are men in dresses. There are some thoughful contributions on this thread on that subject: why we have to work doubly hard to be perceived as nice and fair in making our arguments, because people are primed to believe we are nasty women.

BeyondAssignation · 13/12/2017 21:00

Okay well I won't say exactly that perfectly as I don't believe anybody is born in the wrong body. I don't believe in souls, so don't understand how anyone could be born into anything but their own body.

But I don't wish anyone any harm; men, "genuine" transpeople, TRAs or anyone

LangCleg · 13/12/2017 21:02

I wish no harm to genuine trans women who were born in the wrong body

How can I say this? Why does not saying this mean I wish harm on trans people? I don't believe in gender identity theory. It's a metaphysical belief in dualism, no different to any other religious belief. Mind and body are not separate in human beings. Minds arise from bodies. I'm an atheist: I don't believe human beings have souls, gendered or otherwise.

Therefore, I do not believe anyone, however they identify, has been born in the wrong body.

I wish no harm to anyone.

I support the right of trans people to live gender non conforming lives.

And, in a sexist society, I support the rights and protections granted to women and girls as an oppressed class (which can never include males).

ArcheryAnnie · 13/12/2017 21:02

If it helps, perfectlywretched, I wish no harm to any transwomen, either the ones who you might class as "genuine" who have dysphoria, or even the ones who are taking the piss. I just want all of them to stop causing harm to women.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 13/12/2017 21:02

Even if five posters came on here and said 'I wish no harm to genuine trans women who were born in the wrong body' I would be amazed.

Nobody wishes harm on anyone. You are asking people to state that they believe in your religion and thinking they are meanies when they don't. I have Christian friends, Muslim friends and trans friends and I do not believe in any of their religions.

I wish them all happy peaceful lives.

Thehairthebod · 13/12/2017 21:03

Those who say 'why reduce people to biology and genitals' just ooze privileged ignorance. On what other fucking basis have women been oppressed for the last thousand years other than their biology?

Womanhood isn't something you can 'identify' your way into. Because if you can identify your way into it you can identify your way out of it and if that were possible then Christ knows many of us would have already done that.

BeyondAssignation · 13/12/2017 21:04
Thehairthebod · 13/12/2017 21:04

Who on here has said they 'wish harm' onto transpeople?

You do realise that saying 'a man is not a woman' is not 'harm' don't you?

PowderGreen · 13/12/2017 21:05

I have to ask: what is the yellow and red circle?

perfectlywretched · 13/12/2017 21:05

That's good to know Beyond 😁

Would like to see a bit more compassion on here and my faith in humanity will be restored.

PunkrockerGirl59 · 13/12/2017 21:05

Helen my dear. Your literacy and grammar skills are appalling. I could cope with that if you presented a rational and well-considered argument. I've had more measured and meaningful debates with my cat than I've seen from you, and the cat's quite thick, tbf.

ThreeForTwo · 13/12/2017 21:06

I wish no harm to genuine trans women who were born in the wrong body

If this said:

"I wish no harm to genuine trans women who believe they were born in the wrong body"

You'd certainly get more people saying exactly that (if those are the sort of words you want - it is said in many other ways already).

If your definition of 'harm' includes things like "not being allowed in every single sex-segregated space they might want to go into" or "not having people agree they are indistinguishable from someone biologically of the opposite sex", then you won't get as much agreement. Those are very problematic things with unacceptable negative consequences for women.

ringle · 13/12/2017 21:06

I'm confused now. I agreed to an earlier post but now see it used the word terf :(

I feel like moderate voices are being drowned.

RebeccaWrongDaily · 13/12/2017 21:06

you know the born in the wrong body bit- is there a paper i can read? or do you actually think that brains are plopped into an flip top head in heaven and sometimes god gets it wrong?

I am really trying to work out how it might happen? Can someone show me a paper I might read about cases where this has happened?

genever · 13/12/2017 21:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TeslasDeathRay · 13/12/2017 21:07

No, I'm aware that trans and intersex are two separate things. It was in response to comments about biology.

I'm on my phone, so it doesn't handle copy and pasting or writing longer comments well. I'm not going to address every point because I'll be typing the whole night, but I will say that I do agree that violence and threats are wrong. They shouldn't be made towards anybody.

perfectlywretched · 13/12/2017 21:07

Damn wishing trans people happy and peaceful lives is good enough for me. Thank you.

catgirl1976 · 13/12/2017 21:08

I wish no harm to anyone.

I wish for anyone to be able to present as they like and call themselves whatever name they like without fear or discrimination.

I'd like to see a world where we don't gender 'stuff' (football, the colour pink, dresses, make up, being caring, gentleness) but just see it as stuff that anyone can like regardless of sex.

Gender is a bullshit social construct which is regressive and oppressive and I'd like to see it completely broken down.

Sex however is a biological reality. Reality is important.

Backingvocals · 13/12/2017 21:09

Backing a lot of the feminists on here disagree. Many on here wish no harm and hate towards genuine trans women with body dysphoria

Nobody wishes any harm or hate to people with body dysphoria. But men who don’t feel like men are not women. I’d happily campaign along side them if they got that clear. No one expected black people to agree with Rachel Dolezal when she said she was black just because she was sad.

perfectlywretched · 13/12/2017 21:09

ringle I didn't mean terf as an insult, I was just referring to the original OP.

genever · 13/12/2017 21:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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