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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A letter to the TERFs

653 replies

Helen1111 · 13/12/2017 18:36

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To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet, in the name of women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, when the world you wish for has come to pass, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and the trans woman by the bed next to you, who was with her wife every step of the way is consistently humiliated, dehumanised and denied her true value as a mother, because the best people can manage is to call her a facsimile of a woman, a pseudo-father, and she wishes that just for once, at this most transformative of moments, they would call her a woman, a mother, because that's what she is. But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.

Remember me when your trans neighbour, who is waiting to have children before he starts hormone therapy, gives birth, and feels vulnerable and exposed, because the one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress.". Remember me when the doctors refuse to let your trans cousin see a female doctor, because they won’t record her sex as ‘female.’ Remember me when they laugh at her genitalia, when strangers ask to see what’s under her dress, when they force her to show them, even though her body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who is still reeling from you declaring her “lost to dementia” despite being every bit a feeling, thinking human being, goes into a care home and, despite having lived as a woman all her adult life, is called Sam, and cared for with the men. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that she is Susan, and you know she is your mother, but you cannot object, and can only sit by while her confusion is compounded with depression, anxiety and grief.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because transphobic mothers won’t allow her to run in the girls' race, but she can't go into the boys' changing rooms for fear of being beaten, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, she will never be allowed to compete, or even if she does, people would never accept her victories.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. She’s put in the hours, she’s worked so hard, she knows she deserves it. And the position goes to Lola, who has spent the last year subjecting her to transphobic bullying her at every opportunity, and making her life so miserable that she’s considered suicide more than once. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights. Remember me too, when vulnerable trans women, who look for all the world like you and me, are locked up in male prisons and cannot escape, even though they are imprisoned with the very people who abused them and drove them to the edge.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas, and he tells you that this was the first time he ever felt like there was a truly place for him in the world. But then his teacher told him it is wrong and immoral to be like this. And you realise that all this time, when you preached transphobia, you were teaching others that your son was wrong, was a misogynist in women’s clothing. And you realise that your son, your wonderful, unique, son, will only be happy when you accept him as your daughter. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that your son is depressed, that he is being bullied by people who were once his friends, but she doesn't want to have to involve their parents in this, because it’s really just a lifestyle choice and people should be free to tell him what they think of him, after all it’s really just protecting the rights of the girls in the class. But you are afraid – of yourself, your son, your friends, and you don’t know what to do.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transphobic friends, the ones who called trans women “six foot men with stubble in a dress” and yet still claimed these ‘men’ were “benefitting from the patriarchy.” Look around and maybe you will finally see that this has cost trans women everything, it has made the world a harder, crueller place for them, and yet they still did this. Despite the odds, the pain, the abuse, despite never being considered to be one thing or another, they still chose to live as women.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for all our rights. Fighting to tell you that you do not do this in my name. Fighting to undo the damage.

Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.

OP posts:
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6
Thermostatpolice · 13/12/2017 21:10

Perfectlywretched

I don't understand why genuine trans women (who lots of feminists on here claim to support) should suffer the collateral damage of this terf ideology?
The transsexual transwomen on MN have said repeatedly that their suffering is being increased by the current trajectory of transactivism. Not by gender critical feminists.

Because many, many posters on here are spouting hate towards anyone born with a penis who 'claims' to be a woman.
A person born with a penis is male. They are not and cannot become female. I don't hate anybody born with a penis who claims to be a woman. That would be odd. But I don't believe that they are a woman. And see no evidence to convince me that this might be the case. That's not hate.

Acknowledgement that the majority of trans women pose no threat to women's rights would make the world take your concerns much more seriously about the pisstakers to do pose a threat.
This has been said everywhere. Repeatedly.

KatherinaMinola · 13/12/2017 21:13

Many on here wish no harm and hate towards genuine trans women with body dysphoria

Confused I really don't think anyone posting on the Spartacus threads wishes harm or hate on anyone.

Thehairthebod · 13/12/2017 21:13

Until women are no longer oppressed in any way due to their biology then biology matters. It's really offensive to say 'biology doesn't matter', as if it's just a silly thing that women are being pedantic about to back up their 'transphobia'. It's not semantics, its why women are still second class citizens. To not recognise this shows complete ignorance and, as much as I hate this word as it's bandied about bloody everywhere, privilege.

Battleax · 13/12/2017 21:13

@PowderGreen it's a biscuit, a jammy dodger to be precise. I means "no comment".

OpalIridescence · 13/12/2017 21:13

I wish no harm to transwomen (can't say the rest of the sentence as you cannot be born in the wrong body).

I wish no harm to anybody.
I hate no one and am phobic of no one.

Does that help? Can you see us less as hate filled hags now and actually answer some of the points raised?

Is your brand of feminism just to worry we aren't being very nice ?.

catgirl1976 · 13/12/2017 21:13

No genever it would not. I think you have misunderstood me.

I don't mind how people want to identify. Doesn't change what they are. A man identifying as a woman is just that. A man who identifies as a woman. Not a woman.

therealposieparker · 13/12/2017 21:14

Nobody that I've met who has concerns about the GRA wishes to cause further distress to anyone with any sort of dysphoria. However that isn't to say even in that situation womens rights should be eroded.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 13/12/2017 21:14

Perfectlywretched, please don't mistake challenging an ideology as hate, or standing up for women and girl's rights as hate.

Challenging misogyny and sexism means that sometimes men get sad and can't have the things they want.

We need to work together to build a world where men and women can express themselves how they want.

genever · 13/12/2017 21:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeyondAssignation · 13/12/2017 21:15

In an ideal future world, where gender is smashed and everyone lives their own "authentic" lives free from discrimination, there would be no need for female only anything. Women would have no reason to fear men, so all facilities could be shared.

Til then, things designed for the female sex and not for the feminine gender (like scholarships for eg) should be sex segregated.

Anlaf · 13/12/2017 21:15

I wish no harm to genuine trans women who were born in the wrong body

I don't believe anyone can be born in the wrong body.

I wish no harm to transwomen - nor anyone. I can see how transitioning is totally logical for someone who doesn't identify with the nonsense of masculinity (or femininity) that's pushed upon us, or who suffers from dysphoria with their sexed body. I want us all to be free of the strictures of gender roles.

But I don't believe that putting on feminine clothing makes you a woman, nor that the law should be changed to overwrite the category of women (as female sexed adults). The bullshit I face in my life is in the main because I am female, and no drinking lager/acting tough/wearing trousers has been able to prevent that and believe me I've fucking tried

Is your brand of feminism just to worry we aren't being very nice ?. Aye - it's surprising how hard people take feminists not being nice. Found it hard myself, once.

therealposieparker · 13/12/2017 21:16

And the only thing that is going to cause damage to tars gender people with genuine dysphoria is that Was are campaigning to make the NHS no longer accountable for their condition, the NHS is washing it's hands away. It's down graded to a "thing" and that "thing" is not medical.... you didn't really think the Tories were all "trans women are women" really did you? With the exemptions about inheritance?!! Come on now. This GRA is all about money saving.... now there's your collateral damage.

therealposieparker · 13/12/2017 21:17

oops. Trans not tars.

ferntwist · 13/12/2017 21:17

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

therealposieparker · 13/12/2017 21:18

Was.... Tas.

Oh bollocks.

And the only thing that is going to cause damage to trans gender people with genuine dysphoria is that TAs are campaigning to make the NHS no longer accountable for their condition, the NHS is washing it's hands of it. It's down graded to a "thing" and that "thing" is not medical.... you didn't really think the Tories were all "trans women are women" really did you? With the exemptions about inheritance?!! Come on now. This GRA is all about money saving.... now there's your collateral damage.

perfectlywretched · 13/12/2017 21:19

Opal I am glad you wish trans women no harm. My 'brand' of feminism wishes the same. I wish the other 'brand' of feminists on here would stop ridiculing them, it doesn't sit well with me at all.

OpalIridescence · 13/12/2017 21:23

I'm sorry it doesn't sit well with you. That's sad.

Could you actually answer any of the points people are worried about now?

Or as an amusing aside pop off and have a chat with some TRA's and ask them to repeat after you, " I wish no harm to 'terfs'" see how that goes..

Badgerthebodger · 13/12/2017 21:27

But perfectlywretched where and who is ridiculing anyone? Yes, people have ridiculed the outrageous OP on this thread but ridiculing actual trans people? Nope. Can’t see it anywhere. I, like nearly all other posters, wish them all the best and support them in their endeavours. Identify as whatever you want, but don’t piss up my back and tell me it’s raining. It is not up to women and girls to make way for men. It is not hate to say that someone with a penis is not and never can be a woman.

Notmesomeoneelse1978 · 13/12/2017 21:27

I don't have a problem with a trans person identifying as and wanting to be called a"woman" and a "mother" but if that is the case why are we "women" and "mothers" now being told we have to be called a "pregnant person" and other terms - essentially (to quote Germaine Greer) "making women unmentionable"?

PowderGreen · 13/12/2017 21:28

Thanks for that explanation! I was very confused. I thought it was an eject button.

Thehairthebod · 13/12/2017 21:29

Identify as whatever you want, but don’t piss up my back and tell me it’s raining.

🙌

WTAFisthisshit · 13/12/2017 21:29

I don't wish trans woman any harm and I am concerned about the damage that will be caused to them in this shitstorm. I wrote as much to my MP recently, I also wrote about the damage the proposed GRA will do to woman's rights, gay rights and safeguarding of children. My daughters rights will be removed from them over my dead body. The woman on this board are not the enemy of any woman or transexxual and I am grateful to the ones how we're fighting for my rights when I was a teenage mother oblivious to the fact that mine were under threat. I fucking hope the TRA's, MRA's, misogynists and rape apologists that keep infesting these boards are scared of them though because I don't think they're backing down.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/12/2017 21:30

it's a biscuit, a jammy dodger to be precise. I means "no comment"

Bloody hell - I've been on here nearly 10 years and thought it meant "takes the biscuit" Blush

CoteDAzur · 13/12/2017 21:31

I couldn't actually understand the OP. You give birth and there is a transwoman in the bed next to you who also gave birth? And people are refusing to call her a mother? Confused

Why would we call our mothers 'lost to dementia' when are not?

WTF is he talking about?

thebewilderness · 13/12/2017 21:31

What would a moderate voice sound like? A person who only wants to strip women of some of their rights?