Woman kicked out of Labour's Women's Network party because her views might make a MALE feel unsafe

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twitter.com/DrRadfem/status/940396615008968704

This is what it has come to. A women thrown out of a women's network party because of a man, or more accurately, a boy's feelings might be hurt. What the fuck is going on?

I agree with Thisisouting.

It reflects very poorly on all feminists who object to the Trans agenda.

It is frustrating that atm trans can do no wrong. They make baseless claims. Manipulate and decieve. Yet they are the right on cause if the day.

We can't succumb to our frustration though, well not in public at least
We have to be exemplary. Patient, factual and persistent. It's not fair, but, as always, women are held to a different standard. Feminists more so.

They are milking this on twitter. Madigan is like bloody teflon. He is now the public face of TAs, "Innocent and brave" and completely untouchable. Any slight against Madigan will backfire.

We need to give them just enough rope. We need to be rational in the face of their madness and honest in the face of their lies. We need to show them up for the spoilt, entitled and insiduous cult they are.

The term 'two cheeks of the same arse' springs to mind here.

It reflects very poorly on all feminists who object to the Trans agenda.

Fucking what?

Man goes on rampage, shooting people, with hate note to all the women that rejected him == one bad egg, not all men are like that, he was mentally ill.

Someone creates a meme picture, shares it on a private group == all feminists who say women are women and transwomen are transwomen are bad people.

And people say we're equal, that feminism isn't needed any more.

"Absolutely agree, that meme does just look like abuse to me, anyone who thinks Lily shouldn't be a women's officer needs to stick to facts to say so. "

She didn't make the meme, that was someone else. Hers is just the reply.

My thoughts exactly menthol 😕

Someone creates a meme picture, shares it on a private group == all feminists who say women are women and transwomen are transwomen are bad people

I think this is actually a genuine issue. The TRAs are playing the vulnerable, oppressed card, so those opposing need to make sure they are absolutely squeaky clean otherwise everything will be derailed with how nasty feminists are bullying transpeople.

It's almost as if the TRAs have got some very good PR people, something "we" need. Watching Julie Bindel and Jane Fae yesterday I was struck by how Bindel seemed to be using the "wrong" argument's, and TBH Fae I think came off much better.

We need to use some tactics here - bang on about the things that are absolutely irrefutable and that people actually care about - the only hit Bindel really landed was at the end of the interview when they ran out of time.

There needs to be a better idea of which arguments work, and which ones don't in various media, at the moment I think we do come across as slightly hysterical at times.

Sorry for the rant, this is something I was thinking about last night

My thoughts exactly menthol One rule for men and another for women. Not equal. At all.

I've withdrawn my financial support for the LWN now.

The meme was someone else's. Venice was replying and basically saying don't do it. The photo was possibly up on twitter briefly which means someone tra must have had the twitter continuously monitored with all their special software, because no one else seems to have found it. There are other photos up on twitter from the event and lily is obvious in her uniform of dungarees and stripey top.

They obviously tried very hard, rather than just gathering up what was on obvious public display (along with all the other stuff they put up on the doxxing site). And really, it was as bad as when they come along and say everything is all hatespeech.

Unfortunate storm in a teacup. You live and learn, and move on.

Women voicing their opinions is not hysterical (HATE that misogynistic word).

My thoughts exactly menthol One rule for men and another for women. Not equal. At all

I've withdrawn my financial support for the LWN now

But the problem is that the rules aren't going to change any time soon, and people resigning all over the place just means there'll end up being no gender critical representation at all.

Need to be more clever about this. People don't like facts and data and women at the moment we often just come across as unreasonable and ranty.

gires seem to have an owner of a pr company that works in political lobbying on their list of trustees. There are probably a fair few.

Having secret groups to abuse people like Lily Madigan is very foolish. I'm not surprised it's come back and bit them on the arse.

Loads of solid arguments about the ideology, the lack of accountability, the risks, etc, and they can't resist behaving like children and sniggering away in the corner. It's really disappointing.

Women voicing their opinions is not hysterical (HATE that misogynistic word)

I agree (and I used hysterical deliberately). But this is what we are working against - we need to be doubly careful to not do anything that can be perceived in that way

Unfortunate storm in a teacup

That will be remembered and used against us for a very long time

MentholBreeze did you bother to read the rest of my post?

That meme was childish and crude and if private facebook groups were secure, would be unlikely to cause any bother. But like as not, it is now being used against feminists to highlight our terfiness and it reflects poorly on our cause.

I know it isn't fair. I know we are held to different standards. But they will use anything to discredit us. We need to be smarter, because being right is quite apparently not enough.

I'm not ranty at all. Labour will get my vote but they will not get my money or my time.

I refused to buy South African products back in the day, as did many people and also Jaffa oranges. Yes this boycott did result in the poor getting no jobs, but I wasn't going to fund hatred and racism and thereby keep the status quo.

Trust me, no matter what way you bend to be accommodating or 'clever' about it, it will not work. I been there and got the badge and the T shirt.

As the saying goes, there is no arguing with stupid.

As the saying goes, there is no arguing with stupid

But we are not trying to argue with TRAs, we are trying to argue with everyone else.

I agree with ItsAllGoingToBeFine. Of course there’s a double standard as menthol says. But what this means in effect is that most of the population, who don’t know much about what’s going on, are being told over and over and over again that “TERFs” are bullying harmless peaceful marginalised trans people. We need to be aware of that and aware that anything which even vaguely looks like that’s what we’re doing is going to be screenshotted and used as evidence of what mean meanies we are.

But we are not trying to argue with TRAs, we are trying to argue with everyone else.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine is right saying this and in other comments. This is not a competition in being right, it's a competition in being persuasive, and the target of the persuasion in the general public. When they come to look at this, you want to be seen as the sober sensible side making coherent arguments against the irrational side coming out with nonsense and abuse.

So what can we do to stop TRAs positioning themselves as vulnerable, oppressed victims? Personally I keep posting evidence of their acts of abuse.

But the TRAs will get other people on board, those who are influential. They know exactly what they are doing and exactly how to do it. They have infiltrated every aspect of a woman's life and have no compunction on destroying the hard earned wins that many women spent time and effort and money working for.

If you cannot win with the backing of those with influence, the argument is lost.

I'm never going to compromise. Because that would be a win for them and a loss for me.

But it's one thing asking feminists to not be inappropriate. Difficult but at least possible.

How do we stop TRAs posing as feminists and being inappropriate? Afaik (I wasn't in the doxxed group) it is possible the meme was made by the very person who then publicly shared it.

They are not vulnerable and oppressed though. This is as obvious as the fact that they are not women.

Just don't join the groups. I know there is infiltration going on so I refuse to bite. I'm not at all uncomfortable with the Times getting on board with this either. The Labour Party is a strong movement, with just as many problems as the Conservative Party. Neither are going away.

I know. We can't stop people doing what they want in private groups. And I don't think we should try. People did think those doxxed groups were secure, however naive that seems to outsiders. And sometimes people say inappropriate things because they need to vent, to keep their sanity. We can challenge the ridiculous creeping idea that mockery or disagreement makes anyone "unsafe".