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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BatShite · 13/12/2017 20:28

If that thread does not wake up the rest of the site to quite what delusions we are dealing with here, nothing will. I honestly thought it was sattire at first, til I saw the username.

WaitrosePigeon · 13/12/2017 20:32

That letter is amazing!

Terrylene · 13/12/2017 20:47

Why write a bad spoof and then promote the original Confused

Grin
ladyballs · 13/12/2017 21:25

I have the spoof to thank for the phrase bu gravy. Grin

perfectlywretched · 13/12/2017 22:02

Therealposieparker

LEM what is your beef? Is your DH transitioning or summit?

I imagine responses like yours are LEM's beef. What a snidey response. Feel good about yourself now?

RedToothBrush · 13/12/2017 22:28

Sometimes things are so shit they aren't even worth commenting on.

KarenAlgacs · 13/12/2017 22:50

I only joined mumsnet to comment on this issue, I stand with all my trans sisters. In an age where there is so much hate.. we should be listening to the trans community in how best to support them. The post written by carrot and corn soup is so filled with hysteria and arguments which are ridiculous . I just ask this of all the mums who posted in support of such unkindness.. how many trans women do you know? How many have you spent time with? instead of creating fear and predjudice how about we be kind to other humans.

WTAFisthisshit · 13/12/2017 22:53

Katie if you only joined to post on this thread how do you know about this thread? Confused

BeyondAssignation · 13/12/2017 22:55

"Hysteria" again!! Come on people, it's very basic feminist history!

BatShite · 13/12/2017 22:55

Another 'hysteria'

Odd that there have been so many new posters using the exact same word about women who wish to retain their rights.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/12/2017 22:56

you only joined to post on this thread how do you know about this thread? confused

You don't need to be a member to read, just to comment.

Karen The post written by carrot and corn soup is so filled with hysteria and arguments which are ridiculous

Could you pick just one of the arguments and explain why you find it ridiculous?

Thermostatpolice · 13/12/2017 23:01

Karen welcome. Please break down which arguments you find ridiculous and we will present you with rational, reasonable, evidence and research to support the OP's position. Or you could read the thread.

Most of us here know and spend time with transwomen. Indeed some of us are transwomen.

blackdoggotmytongue · 13/12/2017 23:06

Karen, you joined to post on the thread. Did you actually READ the thread? Or just the op? (Clue - you wouldn’t be asking if any of us knew transwomen if you had read the thread)

UrsulaPandress · 13/12/2017 23:11

Well I've only come to this thread because of the parody posted only.

Thank you.

McTufty · 13/12/2017 23:17

karen I don’t think anyone is looking to be unkind to trans people, just to ask society to recognise that the GRA is going to be harmful to natal women, and to try to find some kind of balance that is kind to everyone, trans and natal women alike.

thebewilderness · 14/12/2017 01:05

“The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.”
― Rosa Luxemburg

Italiangreyhound · 14/12/2017 02:25

carrotandcornsoup excellent opening post, brilliant and sad.

@blackdoggotmytongue "I have a friend whose dd has requested to be referred to as ds/ new name/ erasure of history. She loves her child so much that as a parent she has no real choice except to follow the zeitgeist and say ‘I can see how much happier he is now.’ " That is so sad, I know someone in the same boat. Sad

SophoclesTheFox · 14/12/2017 07:18

I'm not a mum, Karen, do I get to post? Is it just mums that you think ought to put being "nice" above every other consideration? And if they step out of that role, are they inevitably "hysterical"?

Actually, I'm all for kindness. But if it's not reciprocal, then it's being coerced through guilt, and I'm not sure it counts as kindness any more. Which is where we are now.

QueenLaBeefah · 14/12/2017 07:50

Karen - I've asked many trans supporters, but never had an answer, but how would you describe what makes a woman?

perfectlywretched · 14/12/2017 08:37

I posted this on the thread responding to the OP on here so should post here too.

As far as I call tell there are three camps of feminist on this thread.

Camp 1: Nobody born with a penis can be a woman, transgender doesn’t exist, it’s the new self harm, it’s bearded men in dresses, it’s rapists lurking in female toilets, being biologically male and identifying as female is like believing in Father Christmas. Here, have a fucking biscuit.

Camp 2: I believe genuine transgender people exist and I wish them no harm. I want to have an intelligent debate about whether transgender women should have access to women only spaces or whether there should be a ‘third’ transgender space.

Camp 3: I had never given transgender people much though and had no problem with them until I came on Mumsnet and it opened my eyes. I shared the ‘letter to the woman who called me a terf’ post from carrotandcornsoup on Facebook and am genuinely surprised why nobody liked it. I am upset that lots of people deleted me as a friend and I got some private messages calling me a bigot.

I would say to camp 1, let’s agree to disagree and not engage anymore. We are never going to find a middle ground.

Camp 2, let’s gather all the biscuits flung at us by camp 1, make a pot of tea, sit down with our transgender friends and work out how we are going to move forward without anyone feeling threatened, fearful or oppressed.

Camp 3, come and join us in camp 2! We are an inclusive bunch here. Please don’t be surprised when people outside of Mumsnet don’t respond to what appears to be hate speech, even if you don’t see it that way. Carrotandcorns letter was very extreme, even the likes of the Daily Mail wouldn’t go near it, and you can’t blame your Facebook friends for being shocked.

BeyondAssignation · 14/12/2017 08:43

And as I said there. Nobody, ever, in the history of mumsnet, has said that transgenderism doesn't exist.

sleighbellend · 14/12/2017 09:00

Once again, women are being lectured for not being ‘nice’ enough to adherents of an ideology that hates us and hates feminism, whereas the incessant barrage of abuse from TRAs to women is waved on with an indulgent look.

TammySwansonTwo · 14/12/2017 09:02

perfectly I think your post massively oversimplifies the issue.

I actually have no concerns about genuine trans people accessing spaces meant for either gender. My concern is that changing the law to allow anyone at all to identify as the other gender increases risks for women and for legitimate trans people. The current law protects against that. The GRA would make it inevitable.

perfectlywretched · 14/12/2017 09:03

Beyond The bit I therefore struggle with is how any decent human being who acknowledges the existence of transgender people could ever praise and support the OP which is ridiculing and inviting hatred towards transgender people.

BeyondAssignation · 14/12/2017 09:07

Acknowledging the existance of dysphoria (a mental health problem) =/= acknowledging that people are literally the opposite sex.

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