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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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a letter to the woman who called me a terf

1000 replies

carrotandcornsoup · 10/12/2017 07:01

To the woman who shrieked at me that I am a bigot and a terf and a hateful transphobe for defending women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and you're referred to throughout your pregnancy as a birthing individual, a pregnant person, and it makes you feel kind of dehumanised and you wish they'd just call you a woman, a mother, because that's what you are. But they're not allowed, because it's illegal to say only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Remember me when you give birth and you feel vulnerable and exposed and you really want a woman beside you who understands what you're going through and instead your midwife is a six foot man with stubble in a dress and you know he isn't a woman but you're not allowed to object, even when you need to be examined and you just want a woman to do it but you know you can't say anything because that would be hate speech, even though your body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who has lost her mind to dementia, goes into a care home and is told that her carer, Susan, is a woman, because you asked that she only be cared for by women. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that Susan is a man, and you know Susan is a man, but you cannot object, and she has to allow Susan to perform her intimate care, because to object would be hate speech.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because Lucas in her class, one of the fastest boys, has decided he identifies as female for now and so is allowed to run in her race, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, he will always beat her, and she can only ever hope for a silver medal now. Or bronze, if there is another Lucas.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's noone else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because if you do he'll say he's a woman and has as much right as you do to be in this toilet, a place where many years ago you might have come to feel safe.

Remember me when you go for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. You've put in the hours, you've worked so hard, you know you deserve it. And the position goes to Lola, who until last year was a 50 year old man. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have babies, or to deal with any health issues that you, a woman might face, like endometriosis, breast cancer, PND. Lola is a woman just like you, and your company are happy that they have fulfilled their quota of women members on the board.

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for women committing rape and murder are on the increase, and now women carry out a much higher number of rapes and murders than they did when you were a teenager or a young woman. And you know that these 'women' are men and that the statistics are wrong, but to challenge this would be hate speech. Remember me too, when these women rapists are locked up with vulnerable women in female prisons and cannot escape, because to challenge the presence of the women rapists with penises in prison with them would be hate speech.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas and that his teacher said that because he likes playing with girls and dolls that maybe he is really a girl in the wrong body. And you think, no, you are just my wonderful, unique, son, and you were born in your own body. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that you are not validating your son's identity and that she's noticed you are still referring to him by the name you so carefully chose for him when he was born, and calling him a boy, when he is actually a girl, and that she doesn't want to have to involve social services but she's worried she might have to if you continue to misgender your son and deny his real identity. And you know that she will, because it's happened before in a school near you, and you are afraid.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transactivist friends, your lefty male allies, the ones you stood beside and yellled 'terf, transphobe, bigot' with, with you shouting the loudest, because you wanted to show what a good ally you were, how inclusive, how progressive. Where are they now? Why, they are where they always were. Benefitting from the patriarchy. Enjoying the new, improved version of it that you helped them to build by crushing the resistance from the women who spoke up for their rights. This has all cost them nothing; it has made the world a better, easier place for men. It has cost you and your sisters who campaigned with them for virtue cookies, everything.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for your rights. Fighting to undo the damage.

I'll have your back, as I always have done.

OP posts:
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daimbar · 11/12/2017 07:33

I know a trans couple with a little girl. Lovely family. There no question over their daughter’s gender - she is female. All the trans people I know take the (sensible) approach to assume children are the gender they appear to be unless they repeatedly and persistently state they are not.

To the OP and her supporters, if you are really and truly honest with yourselves, are you regularly threatened by trans women in RL? I live in a place with a high number of trans people and have still only come across a handful in my lifetime, all perfectly harmless.

Instead of all the fear and hate, why not show some empathy?

Datun · 11/12/2017 07:39

I know a trans couple with a little girl. Lovely family

Not about individuals. And it’s not specifically about trans-people. It’s about changing the law so that a man, any man can identify as a woman.

B0033 · 11/12/2017 07:52

Not about individuals. And it’s not specifically about trans-people. It’s about changing the law so that a man, any man can identify as a woman.

Exactly. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept.

RedToothBrush · 11/12/2017 08:00

My sibling is lovely.... Wouldn't hurt anyone. Still expects everyone else to adjust their reality to their non reality. Which affects power dynamic and worth of others.

daimbar · 11/12/2017 08:02

It’s about reality. How many people are out there that are everything the OP fears? A tiny minority.

Allowing trans women to identify as woman does not mean we are any less women.

In reality how does the issue affect you day to day? I am guessing pretty much never. Has anyone’s daughter really come home sobbing because her trans classmate beat her in the running race? Thought not.

RedToothBrush · 11/12/2017 08:06

I'll be that group for whom it has affected my whole life.

But as you were. You make my point for me.

My reality is unimportant and does not exist.

daimbar · 11/12/2017 08:08

Real life trans people are not fighting the battles the OP is claiming they are. They are just peacefully existing.

Yes there are a few radical activists on trans Internet forums, much like the radical feminists in on here.

I am glad the majority of society has sense and empathy.

CaptainBrickbeard · 11/12/2017 08:10

daim, there are women in sports being unfairly displaced already and they are somebody’s daughter! I don’t want to wait until it negatively affects me personally before I protest injustice and the erosion of women’s rights.

gunsandbanjos · 11/12/2017 08:10

Beautifully written and terrifying in equal measures. I worry for my daughters future.

FatherChewieLouie · 11/12/2017 08:12

This has been linked to on the Radical Feminism Resources FB page.

Datun · 11/12/2017 08:20

daim

Seriously, what is it you don’t understand about this?

Real life trans people are not fighting the battles the OP is claiming they are.

What does this even mean? What do you mean by ‘real life’ trans people? I suspect you mean the transsexuals who thoroughly disagree with what the transactivists are doing. Many of whom post on here in support of women.

But the transactivists who are violently campaigning to change the law, do exist in ‘real life’! And they are promoting the dissemination of quite appalling guidelines into schools. Something I’m sure your trans friends thoroughly disagree with.

They are campaigning to change the law. And, at the moment, it has cross-party support. Despite it being damaging to both women and genuine transsexuals.

The law is not even in place yet and there are umpteen examples of men displacing women. Not one or two.

Loads of places are turning the women’s toilets into unisex, but keeping the men’s. See threads on here about it.

I can think of dozens men who are now competing as women.

What women want to do is strengthen the exemptions of the GRA. So this does not happen.

You claiming this doesn’t affect anyone is patently false. It is already affecting people. And if the law goes through, any chancer or opportunist will be able to exploit it at virtually no cost to themselves.

HemlockSpartacus · 11/12/2017 08:21

CaptainBrickbeard There are already women - ones raised with female socialisation and expectations - who are being denied positions in roles and spaces designed to counteract societies sexism because inclusivity has allowed transwomen, complete with their previous life experience of being socialised as male, to take those roles.

Why shouldn't we stand up for them? Why should we be silent until it affects us personally?

It doesn't matter that there are transwomen who aren't trampling over women when there are already many instances where they are.

CaptainBrickbeard · 11/12/2017 08:25

Hemlock, exactly the point I was trying to make. Daim’s suggestion that we should shut up unless our own daughters are crying about it puts me in mind of the ‘first they came for...’ poem.

yankeec · 11/12/2017 08:30

I don't believe this world you describe will ever exist, it's only wanted by a tiny minority everyone else has enough common sense to just ignore it.

Aeroflotgirl · 11/12/2017 08:31

The op from what is going on now, is quite rightly predicting the future. The way it's going, op won't be far off.

Natsku · 11/12/2017 08:31

I don’t want to wait until it negatively affects me personally before I protest injustice and the erosion of women’s rights

Exactly this. We can't wait until it affects us all personally as by that point it'll be too late.

Glad to see this is on twitter now, have retweeted it.

MrsWooster · 11/12/2017 08:39

Thank you, op. Beautifully expressing the potential for horror that we are blundering towards, with the best of intentions. What's that old thing about paths paved with good intentions...

Datun · 11/12/2017 08:39

yankeec

I don't believe this world you describe will ever exist, it's only wanted by a tiny minority everyone else has enough common sense to just ignore it.

It already does exist! It’s not a tiny minority! These laws have cross-party support. Cross. Party. Support.

I wish those who disagree with this would simply do some critical reading. Just open your eyes. This is not hypothetical, it’s not fiction, it’s not a future. It’s happening now.

In countries where the self identification law has been approved, women have lost their voice. They have.

And women’s voices are not being listened to here. They’re not.

People are already behaving as though the law is in place. It is being accepted.

Liam Madigan has already been made women’s officer of the Labour Party. A 19-year-old boy with no legal status as a woman, no hormones, no treatment. Nothing.

Although, I couldn’t agree more with you that commonsense should be able to repudiate this.

Unfortunately, commonsense is nowhere to be seen.

Aeroflotgirl · 11/12/2017 08:40

There are even Transgroup approved pre school reading list, that some LEA are using in pre schools and schools. For god sakes, these are very young children, leave them to be kids and stop pushing adult agendas into them. When they are old enough they will discover it themselves.

When I was about 5 back in the 1989s,I wanted to dress like a boy, boy haircut, boy clothes, boy games and boys toys. I was still a girl and happy being one, I found girls things boring. Now if this happened today, I woukd be seen as being male, and forced by tge system to identify as a boy, which was not what I want to be. Today I am happy being a biological female, but don't fall within the girly female stereotype. Like short hair, jeans and t shirts.

Aeroflotgirl · 11/12/2017 08:42

1980s doh

Datun · 11/12/2017 08:46

There are even Transgroup approved pre school reading list, that some LEA are using in pre schools and schools.

Drag queens have gone into kindergartens to teach the children about inclusivity. Now, you might think that’s just a bit of a laugh. But the stated objective was to inform pre-schoolers what constitutes a hate crime.

And given that stating biology is a hate crime, how do you think those children are going to remain anything less than totally confused?

How is it safeguarding children when they are told that if a strange man comes up to them, the correct way to behave is not to question it.

One of the drag queen’s names was Poppin’ Cherry. A euphemism for breaking a female hymen.

Men, with adult, porny nicknames are already exploiting the situation. And no one can say anything.

notafish · 11/12/2017 08:47

blackdoggotmytongue This trans woman transitioned two years ago and used to be the husband of one of our colleagues

OMG blackdoggotmytongue That's really fucking creepy. Is your colleague still working there? We're they complicit in this workshop taking place?

Also, what is a good response to a work culture that expects everyone to state their preferred pronouns and always ask others? I have tge kind of workplace I can imagine adopting this.

SunshineClouds · 11/12/2017 08:54

I know a trans couple with a little girl. Lovely family. There no question over their daughter’s gender - she is female. All the trans people I know take the (sensible) approach to assume children are the gender they appear to be unless they repeatedly and persistently state they are not.

I work with a normal ordinary transwoman who still lives with her family & dotes on her grandchildren. Women like her are not the issue.

It's the transactivists who are pursuing a vicious agenda against feminist women. Not men.

I have interesting proof of this from my own experience on Twitter. I made a tweet explaining why I found 'cis' offensive (I tweet with my RL name). Cue: a week of abusive responses - I muted /blocked most of them.

There's a brilliant male feminist ally (I don't think men can ever be feminists, sorry, I know that's not a universal view) - Michael Conroy - well worth a follow. He posted much the same points as me - loads of men & women agreeing & retweeting. Not much abuse that I could see. When I asked him if he'd had similar abuse as me, he said he'd had none.

Rather proves my point, and that of the OP

Thermostatpolice · 11/12/2017 08:57

daim I think that most of us know or have come across perfectly lovely trans people in the course of our lives. It's really not about anecdata.

Aeroflotgirl · 11/12/2017 08:59

I totally agree Datun, a school should be a place tgat is consistent and young children should feel safe, not a place where the PC brigade can push their adult agendas onto very young children, who are too young to process such information.

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