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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A Spartacus letter re Jo Cox Leadership

301 replies

NettleTea · 01/12/2017 12:33

as many have expressed dismay at the events unfolding we are creating our response to the letter passed around. The letter will be available to share in a document with signatures including representatives of many of the women's groups pushing for consultation. If anybody wishes to have their name / position held added to the document please PM me. If you just wish to add your support, just comment here and keep it going.

In sisterhood

We are ordinary women, some of us Labour Party members, the rest of us potential Labour Party voters. We know that sexism and sexist messages received from birth mean we are less likely to push ourselves forward, to be listened to, to take the lead and have belief in our abilities, especially in a male-dominated sphere such as politics. Whatever our differences, this is an experience that unites women in society and is exactly why the Jo Cox Leadership programme is needed – to bolster self-esteem and confidence and work towards building a toolkit in preparation for political life.

The Labour Party and Labour Women’s Network, in association with the Jo Cox Foundation, have decided not to invoke Equality Act 2010 exemptions which would permit the Jo Cox Women in Leadership Programme to offer the programme to female participants only. We understand that graduates will feel a loyalty to the programme and its decisions. We hope they also feel a responsibility to reflect the diversity of women’s opinions in the party and wider society, and will use their leadership roles to ensure women are consulted about the things that affect us, whether Conservative Party proposals to review the Gender Recognition Act or Labour Party mechanisms to increase women's participation in political life.

OP posts:
Datun · 06/12/2017 13:22

They seem to be just using 'big' words to look more intelligent, without actually understanding what the words mean?

I have seen post after post of ‘big words’, all running into each other (minus the clarifying presence of a single comma), with umpteen movements invoked and philosophies referenced.

All of it designed to refute the irrefutable.

Men are not women.

It’s quite astonishing how someone can write several hundred words denying that, without actually saying so.

AsMenDclaredWomenTheirInferior · 06/12/2017 13:41

Women are supposed to suspend their disbelief, because not to, offends men's feelings.
Therefore men's feelings are the priority, not women and girls privacy or safety.
There is no evidence TW are any less dangerous to women and girls than any other men and yet we women are expected to take our guard down and let TW into places where we would not allow any other men to be.
Apparently saying any of this is now deemed to be hate speech by those who openly threaten women with death for having the nerve to mention it.

GuardianLions · 06/12/2017 14:06

I have seen post after post of ‘big words’, all running into each other (minus the clarifying presence of a single comma), with umpteen movements invoked and philosophies referenced.

Could this be a very deliberate and conscious tactic by MRA infiltrators of the left?

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 06/12/2017 14:25

Love the use of 'debate'. By which they mean debate.

NettleTea · 06/12/2017 15:06

also there is no mention of not supporting trans rights in that letter.
It says that the organisers COULD use the equality act to have made it exclusionary, but didnt
and we hope that the women who did it are happy to listen to women who have concerns over the GRA

OP posts:
Datun · 06/12/2017 15:18

Could this be a very deliberate and conscious tactic by MRA infiltrators of the left?

It comes across as less of a tactic and more of a necessity.

The transwomen are women argument began with trying to find pseudoscience to support it.

As more and more TRAs acted like violent, misogynistic men, no amount of pseudoscience could support the demonstrable behaviour.

So now, they are just left with meaningless word salad and whining.

CreakyGrinders · 06/12/2017 16:22

Am I too late?

Ereshkigal · 06/12/2017 17:04

Therefore, I think the Jo Cox programme should be open to women and trans men.

Yes I agree. But "male privilege"

pamish · 06/12/2017 18:03

I agree. Labour Party member, so far.

Soubriquet · 06/12/2017 18:06

I agree

BeyondAssignation · 06/12/2017 18:26

Did everyone see this...
twitter.com/giuliana_london/status/938222319461392385

Angry
qumquat · 06/12/2017 18:28

Kiri Tunks signed the letter and she is high up in the NEU. She's shared it on her twitter as well. This heartened me as a teacher and NEU member.

Ereshkigal · 06/12/2017 19:00

For those who don't know, @mimmymum is Mermaids' marketing coordinator.

Ereshkigal · 06/12/2017 19:00

Thanks beyond. Was going to post that.

Ereshkigal · 06/12/2017 19:02

Many people on twitter link that account to the doxxing account. This MTT has retweeted many of the dox details and posts.

Lazylouse · 06/12/2017 19:23

It is incredibly weird to read comments that "In this conversation, I think it’s important we recognise that nobody is “biologically woman”, because saying that suggests there is a real physical difference between cis and trans women, and there isn’t. Trans women are as biologically women as cis women :)".

I know I keep reading on mumsnet that people say this, but seeing it in real life is so bizarre. How to people justify this nonsense?

Chocolatecake84 · 06/12/2017 19:56

Late to this. I agree. I'm very angry about this, it's plain insulting to women.

secondwaver · 06/12/2017 19:57

There is total confusion between SEX and GENDER. SEX is biological. You cannot change your sex however many hormones and surgeries are procured. Your sex is in every cell of your body. The female sex has been oppressed and discriminated against throughout history and across cultures because of their SEX. GENDER is something that different societies invent. It is a social construct .... but a VERY powerful one. Societies decide that only females can do, wear, love, behave in certain ways and only males can do, wear, love, behave in others. 100 years ago females in UK did not vote. We changed that! Gender is changeable. Women can be astronauts. Men can wear dresses. It's all FINE. But you cant change your sex. This wave of men saying they "always felt they were really women" is completely bizarre. They arent women. They are men who want to adopt the gender characteristics assigned to women in our society. Good luck to them! But keep out of our safe spaces and the few programmes aimed at helping women achieve equality.

Gingernaut · 06/12/2017 20:12

Fair Play for Women have featured the letter on a Facebook post and linked to this thread.

fairplayforwomen.com/dear-labour-party-consult-ordinary-women-jo-cox

Gingernaut · 06/12/2017 20:13

secondwaver! Hear, hear!!

MsP0b · 06/12/2017 20:22

I'm a Labour Party member and recently helped a friend write her application for the Jo Cox leadership programme.

What are we supposed to be agreeing or disagreeing with here though?

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 06/12/2017 21:32

'In this conversation, I think it’s important we recognise that nobody is “biologically woman”, because saying that suggests there is a real physical difference between cis and trans women, and there isn’t. Trans women are as biologically women as cis women :)'

Just...what?! If they had braind, they would be dangerous.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 06/12/2017 21:32

brains Blush

Datun · 06/12/2017 22:40

secondwaver

There is total confusion between SEX and GENDER.

It’s not confusion. Make no mistake, there is no confusion.

There is a profound determination to change the definition of sex.

Your biological sex is what is between your ears, not your legs.

Your brain determines whether you are male or female.

Separating the sexes on the basis of biological sex no longer relies on the accepted definition of biological, or sex.

You are either hopelessly out of fashion, or will need re-educating into the new, inclusive, acceptable definition of words.

AsMenDclaredWomenTheirInferior · 07/12/2017 00:57

Or it's not women who are suffering from an identity crisis and they don't feel obliged to pander to those who are.

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