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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A Spartacus letter re Jo Cox Leadership

301 replies

NettleTea · 01/12/2017 12:33

as many have expressed dismay at the events unfolding we are creating our response to the letter passed around. The letter will be available to share in a document with signatures including representatives of many of the women's groups pushing for consultation. If anybody wishes to have their name / position held added to the document please PM me. If you just wish to add your support, just comment here and keep it going.

In sisterhood

We are ordinary women, some of us Labour Party members, the rest of us potential Labour Party voters. We know that sexism and sexist messages received from birth mean we are less likely to push ourselves forward, to be listened to, to take the lead and have belief in our abilities, especially in a male-dominated sphere such as politics. Whatever our differences, this is an experience that unites women in society and is exactly why the Jo Cox Leadership programme is needed – to bolster self-esteem and confidence and work towards building a toolkit in preparation for political life.

The Labour Party and Labour Women’s Network, in association with the Jo Cox Foundation, have decided not to invoke Equality Act 2010 exemptions which would permit the Jo Cox Women in Leadership Programme to offer the programme to female participants only. We understand that graduates will feel a loyalty to the programme and its decisions. We hope they also feel a responsibility to reflect the diversity of women’s opinions in the party and wider society, and will use their leadership roles to ensure women are consulted about the things that affect us, whether Conservative Party proposals to review the Gender Recognition Act or Labour Party mechanisms to increase women's participation in political life.

OP posts:
TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 01/12/2017 13:20

I agree.

ferntwist · 01/12/2017 13:21

I agree and have sent PM

terryleather · 01/12/2017 13:23

I agree.

I'm not a Labour Party member but I will not be voting for them while they show such utter contempt for women and girls.

NewtsSuitcase · 01/12/2017 13:24

I agree but ..
I don't feel its clear enough about what we are objecting to. As far as some are concerned everyone is potentially a woman and so the response to this could simply be "yes of course and that's why we are so delighted with our appointment"

Ekphrasis · 01/12/2017 13:26

I agree. Not a labour member though.

Ekphrasis · 01/12/2017 13:27

(Not sure how to message on app??)

IsThisForReal · 01/12/2017 13:32

Potential Labout voter next election but I will NEVER vote for them while they continue to show such poor judgement and contempt for women and girls.

drwitch · 01/12/2017 13:34

will sign whatever but can I suggest changing "received at birth" to
"bombarded on those assigned to be female at birth "

I think biology is given and gender is a social construct (imposed externally) but this simple message is not getting across to those like many of the Jo Cox programme graduates. Thus it is important to meet them half way and this might be a way of doing so

Slapbetcommissioner · 01/12/2017 13:35

I agree.

I've always voted labour and I won't be doing that again in a hurry.

AlistairSim · 01/12/2017 13:35

I agree.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/12/2017 13:35

I agree.

Too scared to give my real name though Sad

AstraiaLiberty · 01/12/2017 13:38

I can't support the "assigned female at birth" phrasing though, drwitch. Babies aren't assigned a sex (excepting very rare intersex cases), their biological sex is observed at birth. It's objective. They receive gendered messages from birth, but that's not the same thing.

CAAKE · 01/12/2017 13:40

I agree. Thank you @NettleTea x

EsmesRedPetticoat · 01/12/2017 13:43

I agree. I also think it might need to be clearer what our objection is - maybe “natal females”? Since labour seem confused about the meaning of “female” “woman” “biology” etc!

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 01/12/2017 13:46

I agree.

drwitch · 01/12/2017 13:47

I agree that sex is observed but gender is assigned. Assumptions about our place in society and our preferences are assigned given the shape of our genitals, There is thus some common ground here and it makes sense to exploit it.

AlternativeTentacle · 01/12/2017 13:48

I agree.

Ifitquackslikeaduck · 01/12/2017 13:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeyondAssignation · 01/12/2017 13:50

I would possibly go with "confirmed or assigned at birth", I think that makes it clear that intersex individuals assigned female are included along with natal females, but not anyone "assigned" male?

And I'm in

MyAuntyBadger · 01/12/2017 13:51

I agree.

just5morepeas · 01/12/2017 13:52

I agree.

Daisy03 · 01/12/2017 13:52

I agree

drwitch · 01/12/2017 13:52

Basically we want to make the point that the communality of experience that defines a woman is based not on what she "fundamentally is" but on how she has been treated and the expectations placed on her since birth.

Junebugjr · 01/12/2017 13:55

I agree and will PM you.

SonicBoomBoom · 01/12/2017 13:55

I agree.

And agree with drwitch. I think they will twist this part:

We know that sexism and sexist messages received from birth mean we are less likely to push ourselves forward, to be listened to, to take the lead and have belief in our abilities, especially in a male-dominated sphere such as politics. Whatever our differences, this is an experience that unites women in society and is exactly why the Jo Cox Leadership programme is needed – to bolster self-esteem and confidence and work towards building a toolkit in preparation for political life.

To say this applies to transwomen too as they are so marginalised and abused (with literal violence by TERFs) that they have no belief in themselves or confidence blah blah blah.

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