Girlguides now in on the act

[W8what]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5117669/Girlguiding-issues-controversial-advice-trans-members.html

I'm a guider and heavily involved in guiding and this is something I and I think a lot of other leaders probably worry about. I would not take a group away with an mtf young person as part of the group because I can't seperate them according to guiding regs and i wouldn't feel comfortable not seperating natal males and females. As an adult I wouldn't want to share a room or tent to sleep (as often happens on events or trainings) with an mtf adult and would probably just leave if asked to.

whoever up thread says 'they hope we don't end up with trans kids' i can assure you I wont. As there is no way i'd entertain it as an option without getting appropriate mental health help for my child.

As I would do if they told me they were going to jump out of a window and fly. It's nonsense and I wouldn't encourage or support it as anything other than nonsense to be dismissed.

I hope too I don't end up with a child who has true gender dysphoria, as it must be incredibly distressing to believe you are born in the 'wrong body'. Especially as there are no really positive options for someone in that position.

The drugs they give you to delay puberty are irreversible and cause harm in many ways. You may well end up unable to orgasm through the interventions offered, which are presented as the only thing keeping you from suicide. Once puberty blockers are taken there is no going back, whatever organisations like Mermaid might say to them. You may well regret your decision but any study into this issue is deemed 'transphobic' and suppressed.

If I had such a child, I would say that they were not born in the wrong body, they were born in their own body. That they can wear what they want, do what they want, be however they want but that changing their sex is an impossibility.

These poor children are being sold a lie and I worry about them.

I've already had this. I host foreign students - girls only as they share a room and it's next to dds room. Last year picked up 2 14 year old Italian girls only one was a boy in make up. Sharing a room! Dh furious as our girls only rule ignored. We all had to pretend he was a girl "but he's a boy" says 8 year old cue kicks under table. We gritted teeth for a week but I was worried about my liability having mixed sex minors in one room. Clarified my rules now.

So saying a trans female wants to join the guides she won't be able to? And yes I know the scouts accept girls but for arguments sake I am wondering where these people fit into society. Sadly it seems they don't.

Bit of a stretch? If they're not given unquestioning, total access to all women's spaces they're being cast out of society? Really?

Scouts accept girls. Many organisations accept both boys and girls. There are many, many options in society where it wouldn't be a problem at all - as many have said on this thread. This is not about there being no Guide opportunities anywhere for transgirls who are therefore being deprived of woggle and campfire related experiences in their childhoods, it's about a trans lobby determined that every single space reserved for girls and women must now be progressive and welcome males who self identify.

You clearly don't feel women and girls are entitled to those spaces. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that there are resources created by women for women and girls and spaces created for women and girls, they are necessary and needed, and not every one of those should have to be surrendered in the name of hyperbole like 'sadly there's no space for these people in society'. There's plenty of space for trans groups to create their own spaces. There's plenty of space to develop unisex and gender neutral spaces. It's not necessary to appropriate every single space for biological females: and as many posts here have pointed out that's the bottom line here.

Not 'I just want a place in society', but 'this space has been claimed from biological women, tick it off the list'.

Nice bit of shaming btw.

without getting appropriate mental health help for my child

This is derailing but you would find it very very hard to get any sort of mental health help that wasn't purely affirmative of your child's trans identity. Any other approach could be seen as conversion therapy and would risk the practitioners job.

Also trans female?

No way is my daughter going to join the Guides now. Where will this end?

It will end with no safe spaces for women and girls and our entire sex marginalised to within an inch of our lives. Look how far it has come since about 2011/2012.

People are starting to listen now however unless more and more people start standing up and talking out about this encroachment there will be no way back. None.

Rebecca - I don't even know what to say to that.. Sorry but you don't have a choice if your child is trans or not, you can only affect if they feel they could tell you. You know that parents said the same things about their children who were gay or lesbian years ago and I thought they could "cure" them of such thoughts. Thank God we have grown as a society.
LEM- thankfully there is someone out there making sense.

And whoever is making the comparison to being white or black, that is utter tripe and shows the total lack of understanding or insight of the issue.

Another as several posters on this thread have said who work in these fields, the practical result will be opportunities for overnight trips fade away as the risk assessment and management of it will be too complicated. Bottom line, the kids pay the price. But the trans lobby won't care since this isn't about the kids to them, this is about a political win.

And in practical terms, the number of boys transitioning in childhood and teens is very small and not all of them are going to want to join the guides, this is going to be a very small number of transgirls in the UK. The massive majority of children and teens seeking to transition are girls. (Wonder why so many girls don't want to grow up to be women at the moment? Hmm.) And the number of aggressively lobbying transmen taking over men's positions and men's spaces, and the number of transboys seeking access to boys' only facilities are.... well. I haven't seen or heard of one yet.

And whoever is making the comparison to being white or black, that is utter tripe and shows the total lack of understanding or insight of the issue.

Can you explain exactly how it is different?

Also being gay or lesbian is a sexual orientation, not at all the same as being gender dysphoric.

Ask lesbians how they feel about transactivism and the effect it is having on them. You may be very surprised at the answer you get.

The thing I’m most shocked about on this thread is the posters who can’t see what a huge problem this is!
How many young girls would want to get changed in front of a boy? He is physically and externally a boy, regardless of what he may or may not feel. He won’t have to worry about having his period unexpectedly while he’s away but any of the girls could. Some of the girls may have already experienced sexual assalt or abuse from a male and feel vulnerable away from home anyway without having to sleep next to a male.
And clearly even consensual sex between a boy and girl is more problematic than lesbian sex in terms of pregnancy.
Why is this hard to understand??

And whoever is making the comparison to being white or black, that is utter tripe and shows the total lack of understanding or insight of the issue.

Drop that was me.

Can you explain why then?

I think the whole situation is very frightening indeed.

I’m a Brownie Leader and dread the day some teenage boy in a dress asks to be. Young Leader and there’ll be nothing I can do to stop him sleeping in the same room as my Brownies. I think I’ll resign before I have to go along with it.

It’s the law though. There’s not much Guiding can do about it.

isn't it?

As far as I understand it, it actually isn't the law at the moment. But everyone thinks it is.

It could be the law soon if we don't stop the gender recognition act from going through.

Oh for heaven’s sake.

If people don’t understand why young girls don’t want to be forced to share facilities and sleeping accommodation with boys then you are telling girls their boundaries are completely meaningless and wrong.

How do you think we can raise girls with high self-esteem? Providing them with the tools to help deal with bullying and sexual harassment? If their boundaries are not theirs to decide?

This is Lila Perry who identifies as a girl and demanded access to the girls’ facilities at school, rejecting facilities provided solely for her use. She said if the girls were uncomfortable, they were being hateful.

She is subsequently shown assuming a well known pose, derogatory to females, representing cunnilingus.

But, you know, at least she managed to make a whole bunch of girls feel powerless and uncomfortable. And both she and they knew it.

I will never advocate for girls to be powerless. #metoo. Ffs.

Cobblers - A black transgender woman described the difference by saying that gender (not sex) is not biologically passed on from parent to child, race is. Gender is innate. Huffington post did an interesting article on. Being transgender is very different compared to situations such as Rachel Dolezal

My dds are at brownies and rainbows. I will be withdrawing them if a trans child (if that's even reasonably exists) joins the group. Sounds harsh but I'm not asking my 5 and 8 year olds to believe a boy wearing a dress is a girl.

I want guiding preserved the way it is as a female space to gain confidence and skills. There are boy spaces available in other activities.

My needs a fight friend sent her ds yo rainbows. I had an issue with that too.

Yesterday was International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women, amongst other things I learnt that for 1 in 3 girls their first sexual experience is rape.

Women and girls have legitimate need for separate spaces from people with penises.

gender (not sex) is not biologically passed on from parent to child, race is

This is incorrect. Sex and skin colour are biology, race and gender are both social constructs.

Being transgender is exactly the same thinf as Rachel Dolzal identifying as black.

If gender is innate why do so many trans people detransition?
Maybe because gender is made up and based on feelings, and feelings can change once you go through puberty and start to work out how you are.
And sex (not gender) is passed on from your parents -either xx or xy depending on which sperm meet egg.
queen totally agree, i would take mine out too if that happened.