Girlguides now in on the act

[W8what]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5117669/Girlguiding-issues-controversial-advice-trans-members.html

Danger aside, teenage girls shouldn’t be told they have to take off their clothes in front of teenage boys. Surely that’s just common sense?

Here's the thing LEM (at least from my POV), Girl Guides is a girl's only organisation. Parents (some) send their children there for that reason, some girls go there rather than scouts for that reason.
If a natal boy decides to identify as a girl and attend guides and other parents don't know he is there, sharing close spaces and sleeping that is completely unfair.

If parents want to send their children to scouts which is mixed and may have mixed sleeping accommodation (my DS didn't go to the mixed sleep camp as we were away however there were a million safeguarding forms apparently but he went to the camp where the sexes were separated for sleeping etc) then they get to make that choice.

Teenagers like to have sex, I know when I was a teenager I went to quite some lengths to have sex when I shouldn't as did a lot of my peers be they make or female. When I went on school trips teachers patrolled the halls because the hotels and hostels required them to do so simply because their experience of housing young people shows them that teens with the opposite sex organs like to use them.

Teenagers now spending a weekend close to each other, bonding and now sharing s room as "girls" when one (or more) of them has a penis?
How long until they are having sex or a girl ends up pregnant?

Christ,I hope nobody here has a child who grows up to be transgender. I actually cannot believe some of the comments. It's so disheartening. And Btw separating your children by sex does not mean they are safe from harm. Plenty of children and adults have been abused by those who are the same sex as them. The damage is just as real and as long lasting,trust me. Ye are all worried about keeping your child away from the "rapist transgender kid" - might not say those exact words but ye may as well be. Disgusting

Some females are dangerous to females

True, but proportionally the amount is miniscule compared to males. Additionally a female cannot rape and impregnate, and will be of female build and strength.

Ye are all worried about keeping your child away from the "rapist transgender kid" - might not say those exact words but ye may as well be

Worried about keeping them away from predatory males. Worried about them not being able to have any female spaces to themselves.

drop - have you read?

Do you think that a 14 year old male, dormed with a group of 14 year old females is a good idea? Do you remember being 14? Penis + Vagina can equal pregnancy - consensual sex too - that's one of the resons we try to keep the reproductive classes apart until they're old enough to be responsible about it!

It's not just rape that people are worried about though is it? I don't think that's what people are saying.

I can see that you/we want same sex spaces for our children but surely if someone genuinely identifies themselves as a girl then they are?

I can see that you/we want same sex spaces for our children but surely if someone genuinely identifies themselves as a girl then they are?

And how does that stop their penis producing sperm to impregnate a girl's eggs?

How does that internal feeling mean that girls are supposed to be comfortable getting undressed in front of them?

How is girl defined so that it includes that male-bodied person, and me as a child, but not my sons or my partner as a child?

And before I'm jumped on - I mean 'penis producing sperm' as in, that's where it's ejaculated from, not that's where those sperm are manufactured.

surely if someone genuinely identifies themselves as a girl then they are?

If they are female yes, if they are male then obviously not.

In the same way as white person cannot identify as and be accepted as black.

Yes I have read it,thanks for checking. I also I'm familiar with old penis and vagina equals pregnancy story. I just get the sense that people here totally dismiss the transgender issue, misunderstand it and don't make any effort to try understand it. I don't believe parents are unreasonable to have concerns, absolutely, ask questions, question those in charge,but if there was more of an effort to try understand then there could be more of an productive dialogue.

Today 21:24 LEMtheoriginal

I can see that you/we want same sex spaces for our children but surely if someone genuinely identifies themselves as a girl then they are?

How?

So what if one of the girls is a lesbian? Will se be banned too or is it ok because she doesn't have a penis?

I am not being deliberately obtuse here as I can understand the concerns totally. What I cannot understand is the total vitriol.

So what if one of the girls is a lesbian? Will se be banned too or is it ok because she doesn't have a penis?

Well, given the risk I'm talking about mitigating is pregnancy, and babies require one of each type of genitals.....

So what if one of the girls is a lesbian? Will se be banned too or is it ok because she doesn't have a penis?

No. It's ok because she is female.

So it's just about pregnancy then?

I think we might sound vitriolic because this agenda is not being pushed by gender dysphoric teenagers, it is being driven by trans rights activists who have and continue to display nothing but contempt for the rights of women to have safe spaces. Any dissent from this view and you are told to 'die in a fire, TERF', no platformed, called transphobic, dismissed contemptuously and hated. You are told you are 'literally killing' gender confused teenagers by the score and you should be ashamed. According to Maria Miller (chair of the women's and equality commission) you are dismissed as a 'so called feminist' and your views are dismissed on that account.

Meanwhile organisations and councils are changing the official advice regarding women and girls spaces, all driven through by trans rights activists with an agenda we can only consider misogynist.

I am pretty livid, to be honest. And a bit scared at how rapidly 50% of the population can be thrown under a bus just to appease the demands of a tiny section of men who demand it.

So saying a trans female wants to join the guides she won't be able to? And yes I know the scouts accept girls but for arguments sake I am wondering where these people fit into society. Sadly it seems they don't.

So it's just about pregnancy then?

Of course not. It's a fact that statistically males are far far more likely to be violent / predatory than females.

It's also about the fact that because males and females are socialised differently from birth it is nice to share experiences with someone who has been socialised in the same way as you have.

And of course.some girls simply would not be allowed to go if there were males there.

I'm sure others far more eloquent than me can explain it better!

So saying a trans female wants to join the guides she won't be able to

You mean a female who identifies as male? I'm honestly not sure what the guides position is on that.

A lesbian child would have the right to be there, she is a girl - in a female space.

By the way in my above posts about teens having sex. I was assuming consenting sex.
So if a girl said no to a MtF boy and no more was done - he would still be in an inappropriate place.

If a girl said no to a lesbian girl and no more was done - she would still be in the appropriate place.

Men and boys are also statistically much, much more violent toward women than other females.

"Because lesbians exist and use the appropriate space for their sex" - is not an decent argument to allowing a natal male into a female space based on purely how they identify.

It's whataboutery.

To be clear, I have no agenda regarding individuals with gender dysphoria. They have the right to live their lives, join in with things according to their presented sex OR their actual biological sex, as appropriate, as long as the rights of women to have their own spaces away from penis owning individuals is maintained.

Most transwomen keep their penis.

The guide thing is worrying due to the fact that parents and girls have no right to object to having to share a space with a male individual who 'presents' as a girl. In fact they have no right to know. That individual has the opportunity to present however they wish, but do not have to join the guides, or if they do, they could be happy with sleeping separately from girls perhaps?

The choice of girls to have their own spaces is not considered.

LEM, do you think I, as a white woman can identify as a black woman and force myself to be accepted as president of the National Association for the Advancement of Coloured People "passing" as black or not?

What Humphrey said.

It's also about the fact that because males and females are socialised differently from birth it is nice to share experiences with someone who has been socialised in the same way as you have

Out of all the arguments presented as to why guides should remain single sex that is the weakest.

I'm not convinced by the mantra on here that it is a given that girls are automatically socialised at birth to be nice or sweet or quiet but if you think that then do your utmost in your own home and family to counteract it.

What experiences would they be sharing anyway?