Girlguides now in on the act

[W8what]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5117669/Girlguiding-issues-controversial-advice-trans-members.html

But gender and race are social constructs, non?

Sorry cross post with ItsAll.

Yours was.much more pithy

If you are citing the Huff post as a reputable source of scientific research, I’m not surprised that your definition of a female is a feeling in a man’s head.

I distinctly remember spending 90% of my time in the tent on guide camps talking about periods and sex.

Presumably, that would be declared hate speech so as not to exclude the “non-period haver” in the group?!?!

Very good point fusion

dropthemic

Can I just ask you. With every single word in the English dictionary at your disposal, and utilising the far reaches of your imagination or even just a stream of consciousness, can you give me an example of say the possible top three things that a boy identifying as a girl could be thinking to make him know that he is female?

Equally using the daily mail article as a reason to take out the pitchforks is ridiculous. It's not my definition either btw. I'm not a psychologist,and by the sounds of it nobody here is either. Yet everyone seems to dismiss proper research done by actual professionals. I have worked with young people and disadvantaged groups for many years (though not directly with transgender people-in case you think I'm part of the big scary trans activists) and one theme I see is that the wider community doesn't like to see anything out of the norm. If they do, fear and ignorance takes over and there isn't much room left for empathy which is incredibly sad.

Datum - thank Christ I'm not the one to try and even explain it to you. How about ask someone who is transgender? If you are actually interested that is. You know it's not catching and I'm pretty sure like most of the general population they don't bite

Equally using the daily mail article as a reason to take out the pitchforks is ridiculous

We're not. Many of us were already aware of this policy which has been in place for months and months now. No pitchforks, just a suggestion that G should remain, as advertised, for girls.

I have worked with young people and disadvantaged groups for many years

And presumably you never seperated the sexes for any reason?

How about ask someone who is transgender

So you are not willing to apply any critical thought yourself at all?

and there isn't much room left for empathy which is incredibly sad.

You don’t think women are empathetic? You don’t think feminists are empathetic? Feminists whose entire lives are spent championing minorities?

I’ve never, ever seen a person here say they are not empathetic to those with gender dysphoria.

The autogynephiles, chancers and predators, absolutely. Certainly not people with gender dysphoria.

What’s that got do with it? Why should one’s sympathy for a psychological condition mean that we are happy to dismantle the boundaries of girls and women everywhere?

Seriously. Why remove the boundaries for 51% of the population for less than 1%? Especially as the males in that 1% retain male pattern criminality!

Why?

Apart from what in your pants datun how do you know if you are male or female? What makes you male/female? We can't reduce it all down to just reproductive organs.

dropthemic

I have asked someone who is transgender. I know exactly why they transitioned.

And they wouldn’t dream of making women and girls uncomfortable. So guess what? They don’t.

Would you please give some examples of fear and ignorance here? And I'm interested as to why your empathy appears to extend one way only?

To clarify in case I am one of the posters you feel are creating a false image of 'big scary trans activists', I am usually careful about specifying in my posts that it's the trans lobby and activist narrative that I am talking about to separate it from the many, many trans people who don't agree with what is being said in their name. I also wouldn't say I see the lobby as particularly big, but considering the vast number of references to rape, violence, murder and dehumanisation of women who dare to ask questions about some highly questionable messages made in the social media of these groups, and considering that these groups are actually being invited by government to advise on legislation and policy, and that two women on two separate occasions have been physically assaulted for displeasing activists one of whom stated in advance their desire to 'fuck up some terfs' - scary is a very good word.

The age range for Guides is 10 - 14. How many transgender people are there in that age range in the UK?

What makes you male/female? We can't reduce it all down to just reproductive organs.

Seriously?

Ok. Chromosomes. Every cell in your body demonstrates a biological sex. Reproductive organs, reproductive capacity (which may or not be working but is still present) external genitals, pelvic size and shape. You can make all the external changes you like via surgery and hormones and an archaologist digging you up a thousand years from now will have no difficulty establishing from your skeleton almost immediately what biological sex you were.

It's a material reality.

It still would be for girls tho. Do you really think boys who identify as male want any involvement in the guides?

Datun I'm not sure if feminist is the word you are looking for.

Bucketandspoons I previously said that I totally understand that parents have concerns. They should question those in charge,they ensure their child's safety and the thinking and consequences of changing policy. What I think is sad here is that some people are denying being transgender is real,that it's just a mental illness, that's what I'm opposed to. I don't mean to appear unsympathetic to your concerns. The situation you have described is incredibly scary and totally wrong. But many trans people experience violence on a very regular basis too. I just felt it seemed very one sided and conscious that anyone reading this thread who is trans/has a family member who is, would be feeling incredibly dejected or so if imagine.
I believe both sides have legitimate points but as I said before if we tried to make more of an effort to understand trans issues then there may be a productive dialogue.
What you described above is sex not gender to be fair

We can't reduce it all down to just reproductive organs.

Um, that’s exactly what it means.

Male and female are biological categories. You know, based on biology. That’s the definition.

Datun I'm not sure if feminist is the word you are looking for.

It is.

What you described above is sex not gender to be fair

But that’s the whole problem.

Change gender. Great. But then demand rights based on sex.

Apart from what in your pants datun how do you know if you are male or female? What makes you male/female? We can't reduce it all down to just reproductive organs

Yes we can. Biology determines the male and female of just about every species on the planet , including humans. (As Blue Planet has just shown us this does not apply to a minute numbers of sea creatures)

If you think biology is not the determining factor- what is?

@dropthemic

What I think is sad here is that some people are denying being transgender is real,that it's just a mental illness

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness. That's why the majority of children with gender dysphoria grow out of it with time and therapy.

However thanks to those "big scary trans activists" it is becoming increasingly difficult to access therapy because it is now viewed as transphobic and as being conversion therapy. So uh, thanks for that, I guess .

I just felt it seemed very one sided and conscious that anyone reading this thread who is trans/has a family member who is, would be feeling incredibly dejected or so if imagine.

This may come as a surprise to you but not all of us think the same way or want the same things. We're as diverse as any other group therefore we are not all going to agree among ourselves or be offended by the same things.

I just felt it seemed very one sided and conscious that anyone reading this thread who is trans/has a family member who is, would be feeling incredibly dejected or so if imagine.

There are both transsexuals and parents of trans children who post here quite regularly who agree with us.