Lily Madigan, TIM, elected Labour women's officer

[jMillicentFawcett]

Lily is 19. Lily was instrumental in the hate campaign against Anne Ruzylo which resulted in her standing down.

You have to be a woman to be women’s officer but ‘The Labour councillor said that “lived experience as a woman” should be considered an advantage — but not a prerequisite — for the role of women’s officer.’

Lily could also have gone for the LGBT officer role but they didn’t want that. No, they wanted to show women that they can shit all over them and we will applaud them for doing it.

I’m absolutely furious about this ( as you can probably tell)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenager-lily-madigan-voted-in-as-a-labour-women-s-officer-mwchkhzq8?shareToken=472df23aa6315582a4f6558d7a1be5ba

'God murders a lot of people'. His view on the bible - from his using religion to justify transphobia is wrong video.

I'm not sure how this stacks up with the Christians, Jews and Muslims who vote for the Labour Party. Plus other religions who have deities at the core of their religious beliefs.

I'm hoping he's moved on from religious hatred as a way to get an argument across.

"Lily has been played by our bloke, although possibly didnt need too much persuading. Our bloke is nearly 30. why he was hanging around and pursuading 19 yr olds what to do, who knows"

'Our bloke' has a mental age of about 14 though, let's be honest.

Neither of them are sophisticated.

Interesting, NettleTea.

I don't quite understand how a complaint from Lily led to such problems that everyone subsequently resigned?

because he invoked transphobia, which is worse than rape and murder.

Was any formal institutional procedure invoked to oust Anne? In her talk at Cambridge she expressed justified anger that others in the Party apparatus didn't come to her support, but I'm just a bit unclear of the mechanics. Also, was this entirely about trans or did trans become a stalking horse for Momentum? (I'm a Labour voter but not member, so the internal machinations are opaque to me.)

i suspect that Owen Jones' adherence to the TRA line is motivated (aside from generic virtue signalling plus misogyny) by his need to ingratiate himself with the Corbynites, after his major wobble during the election campaign.

I find the hate and loathing on here depressing. Would you be so hate and bile filled towards a lesbian woman representing your interests as presumably you are predominantly heterosexual women with children on this site? Would you be so quick to discount her as able to represent your interests? As a parent of a trans child I find your loathing of trans women and the total denigration of their experience upsetting. However, statistically, a small handful of mothers on here willl have to deal with their child coming out as trans and only then can you begin to understand the reality of this existence. I realise I am opening myself up now for plenty of vitriol but I think we can all agree that you can’t really know what something is like until you have experienced it yourself.

Whatsit, massive sympathies to you and your child (assuming that this isn't something they are actually happy about).

But this 'I think we can all agree that you can’t really know what something is like until you have experienced it yourself' is kind of the point of objecting to a 19-year-old male representing women for the Labour Party. Why not represent something he does know something about, such as being trans, or being a teenage party member?

I think we can all agree that you can’t really know what something is like until you have experienced it yourself.

Well, yes. That's why people would like a woman as a woman's officer.

Are you kidding Whatsitallbout? I am quite happy to have a lesbian woman representing me, because she is exactly like me. She is a woman.

I would fully support a trans person being a Trans Officer, using Trans spaces, talking about Trans issues.

There is massive sympathy and understanding on Mumsnet for people who are trans, and in particular for their parents, but that doesn't equate to thinking: Trans = doing whatever the fuck you like and telling women to put up and shut up

It's a strange thing isn't it? Not many women would think being a lesbian is comparable to being a man who thinks he's a woman.

It's decidedly homophobic to me.

Whatsitall - I think you have spectacularly missed the point here

Back to the suicide question - threaded threads would help - there are many web pages on Tumblr and Reddit where young people can go with their I-think-I'm-trans doubts and questions. They then get masses of advice as the adult TAs pile in, that even asking the question means they are etc. Then it gets into how to tell/persuade the family. One of the trump cards is to threaten suicide. They can quote how 'everybody knows' this is a thing and to say that they can feel themselves coming over all suicidal if they are told that No they can't Change Sex. So of course this is part of the 'statistics', family/schools etc all get told that denial leads to suicide threats. It's a deliberate part of the grooming.

not sure why a lesbian could not represent women, or why you think only women with children will do here What

Firstly, a woman unable to or choosing not to have children is no less a woman; secondly, there are lesbian mums on here.

I agree that hate is a bad thing; but it seems to me that in order to stand as a woman’s officer when you have zero experience of being a woman, one must really hate women, or at least not value their actual, real life experiences at all.

I did not stop on my way out the birth canal, puzzle a bit and think oh, I will be a woman. I didn’t get a choice in the matter. I entirely understand young women who want to opt out of the confines of the female gender. I just don’t think the way to do that is to deny the reality of the female sex. As for men opting into the female gender, if we did not have strict gender binaries, this would not be an issue.

But a man adopting the trappings of the female gender does not become one of the female sex. That is all.

Parent of trans child makes out homosexuality is 'other'. Interesting.

And yet, can you imagine someone seriously asking if a gay man could represent men? Yeah, I doubt it, but lesbians seem to be a target for this kind of stuff.

50 years ago homosexuals were reviled and abused, their experience denied, told they had a mental illness, could be cured and if they didn’t want to be cured, were deemed deviants and amoral. We have moved on from such loathing today. Imagine a world where it was accepted that a person could be born into the wrong body, that a persons external gender did not match their internal identity, that how that person looked on the outside did not represent who they are inside? Imagine we lived in a kind and tolerant society that recognised that as a fact. If we did, that would make Lily a woman not a man. But we don’t live in a kind a tolerant society. Clearly.

yawn.

I'd be very happy to have a lesbian representing my interests. I'm heterosexual but have no children. Being a lesbian means you're female and are perfectly placed to understand women's issues.

I think it must be incredibly difficult to have a child with gender dysphoria. You have my sympathies. A lot of people on here are speaking out because they feel protective of children such as yours. Are you not aware of that? They don't want children to be left infertile or to struggle with their sexual orientation if they're gay. They want them to have appropriate support.

Well, given I can't have children, presumably I am doomed never to understand. Ah well.

By the way, I'm 100% percent fine with a lesbian - such as, for example, Anne Ruzylo - representing my interests as a woman, given that she too is a woman. As I'm fine with sharing a changing room, loo, shelter, sports team, medical facility etc with lesbians. Because they're women. Sex segregation has nothing to do with sexuality.

Especially in the US, there seem to be many cases of fundie christian families preferring to have a trans child than a gay one. Reading accounts of the stories of accepting your five-year-old boy is really a girl and getting loads of brownie points for colluding with this, they often turn out to be fundie xtians. Just sayin'.

We have moved on from such loathing today

No, we really haven't. Plenty of TRA's are seemingly willing to tell lesbians that their sexuality is a 'preference' and that they are transphobic if they don't want to have sex with a TIM with a penis. Gay people are being treated appallingly in this debate. A subset of very vocal, aggressive men do not want lesbians to be free to reject them.

Do you really think it's a scientific possibility to be born into the wrong body? What would your response be if I said I was born into the wrong race and that although I appear to be white, I am in fact black? How are the two things different? Why should society bend over backwards to accomodate someone saying they're transracial, for example, if in doing so it causes harm to 50% of the population?

I see historical parallels too, but with the medical craze for lobotomies - altering the body to fix the mind.

I also see more parallels with the 'correctional' rape of lesbians and the modern mantra of 'a trans women with penis can be a lesbian and you're bigoted if you don't agree' than with the struggle for gay rights.

50 years ago you wouldn’t have been happy to have a lesbian representing your interests. Hopefully it won’t be 50 years before trans women are seen as real women too.

Well, we differ there, whatis. I don't think it's kindness or tolerance to encourage children to believe that their bodies are "wrong". I think it's kinder to help them understand that they're perfect as they are.

find the hate and loathing on here depressing. Would you be so hate and bile filled towards a lesbian woman representing your interests as presumably you are predominantly heterosexual women with children on this site?

A lesbian woman is still a woman, not a man.

Also this male bullied a lesbian woman out of her post