Labour MP Jess Phillips being attacked on Twitter for her reasonable approach to gender bill

[BrightonBeachLady]

I quite admire her tone of weary impatience, but if anyone is on Twitter and wants to thank/support her, here is the link: twitter.com/jessphillips/status/931093574011191296

sagamartha

My view on transwomen is informed by Blanchards typology. As you know. We’ve already been through this.

I have read little since to dissuade me from that description.

Although, as the definition of transgender has diversified to include 76 different genders, non-binary people, people with an evidently warped view of teenagers, like Travis and any old violent thug who says he is, Blanchard’s view seems quaintly nostalgic.

The transactivists fundamental views help no one.

I know that saga. We all do. Curry on here says the same.

And I’m sure you are worried. Women are worried.

The ideal solution would be to roll back the laws and start again.

But this time, make damn certain that there is a proper diagnosis. Of gender dysphoria.

Unfortunately, I don’t see that ever happening. Partly because it has gone too far, but also because people now realise you can’t tell the difference.

The AGP men are out of the bottle.

And they know how to game the system. That knowledge cannot be ‘unknown’.

It’s too late.

And I will add this. A huge part of me wants to help genuine transsexuals.

It’s ridiculous, really, how an inner conflict can bubble up when I perceive the distress in your posts.

I have to actively fight my socialisation to be nice.

And frankly, it’s part of what has got us into this trouble in the first place. It always gets women into trouble.

So, I think it’s worth saying to you, that although I sympathise and you know, have a drink on me sometime, I will not be taking my foot off the gas.

This issue has consequences for every single woman and girl in the country. And our children, and their children.

Maybe, as the spotlight is now on this, more money will be diverted to a cure for gender dysphoria. And we will all be happy.

But until then I will be fighting for the rights of women and girls to maintain the boundaries that our grandmothers and great grandmothers fought for.

Sorry nauticant - reading on phone and got the posts mixed up.

That's completely fine @FloraFox, it's very easy to do.

Saga, as I said earlier in the thread, the current extremist agenda of trans activists threatens trans women just as much as other women. Allowing any man who is willing to complete a form to claim that they are female and therefore access women's prisons, women's shelters, jobs exclusively for women for safety reasons etc.

Right now there are men who set out to harm women who go to great lengths to do so. Comparatively, filling in a form to access vulnerable women is a walk in the park. Of course some will do it.

The solution to this seems to be to ensure that anyone requesting access to these spaces should be assessed, meet criteria, convince experts that they are what they claim to be. Seems to me that most of these activists know full well they could never meet this criteria.

But if that's thrown away then women and trans women are increasingly at risk, and yet I don't see many in the trans community standing up and being counted on this issue and saying "not in my name".

I do fear men after a long history of sexual assault. I particularly fear men who would choose to pursue this route. That is not the same as fearing trans people.

Seems to me that most of these activists know full well they could never meet this criteria

But this is the crux of the problem. They can meet the criteria. Anyone can.

And I’m not talking about the criteria to be trans (there is none). I’m talking about the criteria for gender dysphoria.

It’s only diagnosable on the basis of what the person says.

Which I realise is hugely unfair to genuine sufferers.

Nonetheless, those suffering from AGP have, and do, convince HCPs otherwise.

I doubt there are any autogynephiles who go to their therapist and say I’ve got a fetish, give me hormones.

Nonetheless, those suffering from AGP have, and do, convince HCPs otherwise

You don't think that experienced psychologists with expertise and training in this area and who subject you to intense questioning over 2 years and with several of them can pick up on people who don't have gender dysphoria?

sagamartha

Evidently not always, no.

Otherwise I wouldn’t have read loads of accounts from men about their autogynephilia who also take hormones and have had feminisation surgery.

I’ve also read tips and tricks on the Internet about how to fool your psychologist.

The very first time I googled autogynephilia, I saw posts from men literally saying if they really knew what we thought we would never get the medication.

That was two years ago.

I have copied and pasted this. This came from the top five posts when I first googled AGP.

Googling tends to bring up different things now. But then, transactivists weren’t quite as on the ball about hiding this stuff.

'...forced feminization, mysogyny and humiliation...looking at porn of cis women and imagining them as victims. That was my main mode of fantasy'.

'It was really a humiliation fetish...like how embarrassing it would be to be a woman and do girly things'.

'...it's the humiliation part of being a women that I like'.

'..we all know transsexuals who read up on what psychiatrists want to hear'

'If the psychiatrists thought for one second that we were getting turned on by silk panties, our transition plans could be pushed back'.

'...some non-trans women get turned on by their bodies and clothes...the feel of silk, the sheer negligee, a tight skirt showing off their ass, the smell of a leather jacket,thigh-high boots, a riding crop. The self love makes you feel validated...it's acceptable for XX women to do this, it's often encouraged'.

We are living in a country where rapists are placed in female prisons. I don't think the bar for who is genuinely trans is particularly high.

I wonder if Maria Miller knows that someone whose advice she listened to is now sending "die already" threats to another MP?

Thanks, Betsy. I've reported Ada's account. What a nasty, abusive, misogynistic shitstick he is.

It’s all so obvious reading this thread, why transactivists are pushing for self id. Clearly they are not gender dysphoric so can’t get a GRC by current system (unless they lie and manage to pull wool over eyes of specialists)
Change to self id, that obstacle is removed and opens the doors for anyone with this paraphilia to legally be declared female.
Maybe the way forward is to more clearly define those who do have surgery ie transsexuals vs though with agp or whatever other fetish they have? I think most of us do have sympathy for transsexuals and don’t want them to be disadvantaged by the new generation of TRAs who are transgender but unlikely to be transsexual (though accepting datun’s point re some AGPs will have surgery). So we need to continue to include gender dysphoria as an essential diagnosis before GRC can be issued

I really worry that all this media coverage will affect the way people like me are seen - and all the effects of that.

I worry about that too, knowing a few post-op transsexual people. They also worry. They say life really wasn't too bad as a transsexual before all of this too. Unfortunately the media coverage is actually necessary though, given how far this has gone. When we are at the stage of giving 'harmless' and 'reversible' (which neither is true) puberty blockers to children based on their dress and toy choices and their not wanting to go through puberty (a very very normal feeling for kids, its fucking scary)..when we are at the stage where we have male rapists in female prisons, at the stage were a change in law is considered seriously that would allow anyone to 'change sex' based on nothing but a fucking FORM being filled out...yes, media coverage informing people of what is actually going on is entirely necessary.

Clearly they are not gender dysphoric so can’t get a GRC by current system (unless they lie and manage to pull wool over eyes of specialists)
Change to self id, that obstacle is removed and opens the doors for anyone with this paraphilia to legally be declared female.

This actually already exists: TRAs have been successful in modifying the criteria for gender identity disorder, such that little is now required for a diagnosis. It's also worth remembering that under Blanchard's typology (and he wrote many of the former guidelines for transition), autogynophiliac and transsexual were not mutually exclusive - indeed, the AGPs were one type of transsexual. AGP itself can cause severe sex dysmorphia (as Datun has mentioned, some even have surgery), although it seems to be on a wide spectrum: from those who fully commit to medical transition, to those who want to occasionally cross dress and be seen by others as a 'pretty lady', to those whose AGP seems to encompass some seriously disturbing behaviour, like the compulsion to involve others in their fetish and enact sexual situations in public.

Regardless, AFAIK under current UK law, trans people don't actually have to have any medical interventions to get a GRC - they just need a doctor's testimony and the approval of a panel (as well as to have 'lived as their chosen gender' for two years, whatever that means). There is already no rigorous gatekeeping in place: it's under the current system that a double rapist was approved for a legal sex change and transferred to a women's prison; and teenage girls are walking out of gender specialists' surgeries with a prescription for testosterone after one visit.

The reasons why TRAs want to do away with even the minimal medical gatekeeping that now exists are twofold, I think. One is a straightforward will to power: they want to control the narrative of transgenderism completely, and they especially want to make the concept of biological sex meaningless in law. This is very important, because as long as sex is recognised legally and socially, it will always be in conflict with 'gender identity', calling into question its validity. The two concepts are inherently oppositional and cannot coexist legally or ontologically, since 'gender identity' itself is the belief that one's feelings override the material reality of sex.

The other reason is that along with the more disturbed non-dysphoric AGPs, many other nefariously motivated males seem to have joined the trans umbrella. I'm increasingly convinced that many of these men aren't even autogynophiles - they just seem to be men who get their rocks off by dominating and manipulating women, pushing women's boundaries, making women uncomfortable, and of course actually assaulting us. Even more disturbingly, a good number of them seem to have pedophilic tendencies. It makes sense when you think about it - 'gender identity' is the perfect cover for predatory men: they get to pose as both harmless and victimised in addition to getting unprecedented access to women and children, since, unlike with regular men, women and children are not permitted to have any boundaries against them.

For those who don't want to read my rather long comment, Magdalen Berns has an excellent video on this topic: it's very sharp and compulsively watchable, like everything she does:

She makes the interesting point here that even though the transgender movement is obliterating the meaning of 'transsexual', many transsexuals still go along with it, because being part of a big umbrella movement filled with lots of non-transsexual people gives them more power and influence than a tiny movement composed only of transsexuals:

By making transgender identity accessible to people who are not transsexual, lobbyists have been able to recruit a larger population of activists who are personally invested in the ideology of transgender identity. This has actually served to help popularise the cause at an exponential rate.

By making transgender identity accessible to people who are not transsexual, lobbyists have been able to recruit a larger population of activists who are personally invested in the ideology of transgender identity. This has actually served to help popularise the cause at an exponential rate.

Excellent report.

And it accounts for the mob who beat Maria and the Travis’s of
this world.

I too think that paedophiles everywhere are getting in under the radar.

Why wouldn’t they? Who wouldn’t rather hang around the swimming baths changing room during toddler swim, than have to constantly shuffle past the swing park on a cold, wet day.