Owen Jones

[Terfing]

Yes, I know he is a troll... But he is really fucking winding me up at the moment. He annoys me more than people like Katie Hopkins do!

He has been tweeting a lot today, and the past few weeks, about the importance of transgender acceptance. However, he isn't engaging with the many people disagreeing with him! He just posts another passive-aggressive tweet in response to concerns.

I just know we are going to get another shitty pro-trans article from him soon...

(I obviously do support trans people, but I am against the ideology!)

Haha nauticant that is so true. I had the weird experience of feeling like I wasn't working class because my family didn't live in a council house when most of my wider family did, but then being told I had to be because my parents had no qualifications, did non-office jobs, and I came from the north...

John Harris is excellent.

It's always good to hear others were equally nonplussed cuirderussie and OneFlewOverTheDodosNest. Even now, many years later, I still find myself realising that I perceived university in a way which was very different to those who were there as a directly following consequence of their upbringing and education.

He does vanity search his name so no doubt there’ll be another article/twitter rant about how mean MNetters are and how he hates mothers etc etc

Hi Owen.

how he hates mothers etc
And some of us that hate him are not even mothers! Just run of the mill women.

I look forward to another mansplanation about how he’s much more feminist than us inconveniently female people who keep disagreeing with him. (He has survey results about what women think, you know! Some of his best friends are women!)

Some of his best friends are women with penises.

He is vile. It's the sanctimonious that gets me - oh look at me and how right-on I'm being, unlike you terrible terrible terfy women.

I've noticed that with all this trans stuff, he doesn't engage with the arguments at all. He just talks pompously about being on the right side of history and how being opposed to transactivism is just like being opposed to gay rights.

The one satisfying thing about all this is that in 10 or 15 years time, when feminists will have been proved to be right, and adults are suing the NHS for pumping them full of hormones as children, we'll have a full written record of everything Owen Jones said now. He won't suddenly be able to pretend that he supported the feminist argument all along.

Well someone's linked this thread on Twitter so I anticipate the arrival of Owen, disguised as a breastfeeding, sorry, chestfeeding mum of twins!

Had a rather sad moment listening to the wonderful Paloma Faith being interviewed by Jeni Murray on Womans Hour re her including Owen Jones on her new album and what a good all round feminist chap he is with a good heart ... Oi ! Paloma! Come and read this lot !!

Yes his recent tweets give away his motivation here. He wants to be "the chap who supports minorities". There's no thought to it. Obviously women don't count as we're not a minority so he doesn't get any self-affirmation from thinking about us.

I agree he would have been the sort of person who supported PIE back in the day. [Note, Owen, if you are reading, I have not said trans people are paedophiles]. It's just the sort of male-centred minority interest that he would endorse without giving it any thought.

He won't suddenly be able to pretend that he supported the feminist argument all along Didn't he do a volte face about Corbyn ?

The Diary of Little Owen Jones, aged 33 and 1/4.

Spent today fending off attacks from nasty women. Why do women hate me so much? Why can't they agree with me, like Mummy does? Paris (I love Paris, she always agrees with me), says it's because they are CIS and TERFs, and they can't woman properly like she does

This is very good. So true!

Didn't he manage to write an entire article about IVF without mentioning women once? Just focused on gay men conveniently completely ignoring the class of people who would need to be surrogates. Women are an irrelevance to him so he is perturbed when they have a voice and disagree with him. Misogynistic twat.

The woman who wrote the great open letter to Topshop has written another amazing piece to leftie men like Owen Jones.

medium.com/@GappyTales/dear-men-on-the-left-f20fbf6272cf

gosh

Not one mention of the work women do to make this happen. Very good gay friends of mine are using a surrogate and are expecting twins shortly. If they wrote the woman out of their story like this I would not be able to be friends with them. I am fully in support of all families having equal value - I have donor conceived children myself. But I couldn't write a piece about it without referencing the man who made it all possible.

Thanks stitch - that article by Jeni Harvey is great.

The one good thing about all this trans business is that it shows up some left-wing men for what they really. Men who you might previously have assumed were sympathetic to feminism turn out to be straight-up-and-down misogynists. Owen Jones is one. James O'Brien is another. How dare a woman feel frightened of being in a changing room next to a man? What a wicked transphobe she must be!

At least we know where we stand. The battle lines are clear.

From the article stitch linked to:

Yet nowhere is the misogyny of the left more apparent than in the current conflict around transgender issues. It is here that men most like to congregate, hiding behind a claim to advocate fairness and equality, aggressively signalling their no cost virtue. Risking nothing in terms of power or rights, they sit easily atop their high horses, shouting down at those of us with everything to lose, insulting us if we do not acquiesce to their view.

Yep. It's interesting how many of these men (and a few women) have stuff on their timeline about listening to and believing women, supporting MeToo etc. Until trans is mentioned and then they are dismissed and silenced. I said on another thread that much of this is just an excuse for men to abuse women in a politically correct, approved way. Owen Jones is currently arguing with the author of that article on twitter btw.

What a twit he is. Loathesome little toad.

Another brilliant article by Jeni Harvey! Thanks, stitch

Dear men on the left, I’m going to tell you something and you’re not going to like it. When it comes to rank misogyny, you are often no better than men on the right. Your claim to feminism cannot be made reconcilable with your attacks on women with whom you disagree, and neither is your claim to a belief in fairness and equality compatible with ripping up our hard won rights.

You are no better when you tell us we have no right to an opinion on what the word woman means. You are no better when you call us names known to incite threats of rape and violence, because we do not understand gender in the way you would wish us to. And you are no better when you refuse to listen to, empathise with, or try to understand our point of view.

mobile.twitter.com/owenjones84/status/572771475360501761

I can't understand the mental gymnastics OJ must do to come out with stuff like this. So trans women are women, end of, and trans men are men, end of. Yet somehow he equates being asked to perform cunnilingus on a trans man as being asked to go straight. For fuck's sake. The cognitive dissonance is mind-blowing.

He's so disingenuous about women generally, but in particular about trans issues, and today is no exception.

He's blathering on about "cis" women overwhelmingly agreeing with him vis a vis trans stuff. But he always elides the actual truth:

*The current conversation is mostly about proposed changes to the GRA and NOT about trans people's status generally.

*YouGov's recent polling indicates 37% of women oppose the proposed changes, 31% support them, and 32% don't know (I think we can safely assume that, presented with the details, a great many of that 32% would transfer into the oppose category). The "cis" women agreeing with him are the ones in his echo chamber.

*Most so-called TERFs wouldn't know a single tenet of radical feminism if it got up and slapped them in the face with a wet fish. They're just normal women who don't mindlessly repeat ideological dogma for the ally cookies.

*Most so-called transphobes have no problem with transsexuals, especially those who are post-SRS. Women are objecting to Gender Identity Theory, a religious belief of dualism, and not individuals. And they are objecting to it because it destroys their protections if legislated for.

Why are we contemplating compelled obedience to a religious belief? That's what I want to know.

The belief based nature of it is what bothers me. I can't think of any other belief based group who have the power to insist everyone agrees with them.

The current conversation is mostly about proposed changes to the GRA and NOT about trans people's status generally

This.

I believe live & let live. Most transsexuals just want to get on quietly with their lives. But the GRA has implications which will be very bad for girls & women.