We need to talk about the GRA - Glasgow

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

www.eventbrite.com/e/we-need-to-talk-about-the-gra-glasgow-tickets-39786635899?utm-medium

I may actually try and go to this if I am feeling brave.

I feel ambivalent about all this cloak and dagger stuff re venues etc and wonder whether it may not be more beneficial for our cause to have public meetings, announced in the usual way with tight but 'passive' security and an ironclad rule that nobody gets physically involved with anybody, let security deal with any trouble-makers from any ideological camp.

Shouting and fisticuffs is just embarrassing and juvenile and makes everybody involved look bad.
If there was an event in which TAs went all shouty and disruptive and that was caught on film and broadcast while women stood by and behaved sensibly, it may skew opinion in our direction. I hope.

The trouble is that once a venue is made public (or even just leaked) there is such a volume of calls, tweets and emails from TAs threatening to turn up and disrupt that the venue backs out, usually citing insurance concerns. It doesn't matter if only 4 TAs are actually planning to go, they'll send out a call and get people all over the country/world to contact the venue and harrass. Security costs a lot of money and venues' concerns over insurance are valid.

Also, of course, transactivists have been actually physically violent. I think it's a bit much to expect women to stand by and behave sensibly while getting punched. This is not a comment on the Glasgow talk BTW, I wasn't there and haven't seen footage of the altercation at the start.

A response from Patrick Harvie to an email sent to him describing the events on Weds evening, asking for his support in helping women meet and organise, and asking for his position on his MSP supporting the transactivists.

Thanks for your email.

As I wasn’t present to witness the events you’ve described, I can only acknowledge your own perception as well as the perception of those who have commented online about the other side of the story. I’m clearly not in a position to make a judgement about what happened or why.

I see nothing whatsoever in Ross Greer’s tweet to disagree with – it’s a simple statement of support for trans people, and opposition to transphobia. It was in reply to a question from someone whose account appears to comprise nothing other than anti-trans rhetoric, so I can understand why Ross wouldn’t care to engage in more detail on that occasion.

It’s very clear that feelings run high on this issue. I hope in particular that people will acknowledge the torrent of abuse and prejudice that trans people are living with in the present climate; their very existence is denied in the pages of major newspapers on a daily basis, and outright hostility to equality, such as misgendering people, is being presented in some circles as a legitimate expression of free speech.

To be clear, I have no reason and no wish to accuse you or your colleagues of this kind of behaviour. However I do hope that you will acknowledge that it is becoming not only mainstream but relentless in some parts of society, and inevitably has a profoundly harmful impact on trans people.

I am pleased to see broad support for the Scottish Government’s proposals for improved legislation on gender recognition, not only from trans and LGBT+ organisations but also from highly respected feminist and women’s organisations including Engender, Close the Gap, Rape Crisis Scotland, Equate Scotland, Scottish Women’s Aid, Women 50:50, and Zero Tolerance.

By listening to all those who agree that trans equality and women’s equality are not in conflict or competition, I am confident that the Scottish Parliament will be able to move forward with this issue positively.

Sincerely,

Patrick Harvie

By listening to all those who agree that trans equality and women’s equality are not in conflict or competition

I think I've just had a rage stroke.

"Listen, woman, I'll be listening only to the other women. The ones who agree with men. So you can eff the eff off."

'By listening to all those who say the things we want to hear, and ignoring all the nasty bigoted women, I am confident that the Scottish Parliament will be able to fuck women over without too much objection'

Oh my god.

I feel I've been transplanted into a different planet where things look the same but nothing makes sense anymore.

Cracking line in a letter from Angela Constance

"Women only services....are likely to have risk management policies in place"

And

"The Scot Gov expects trans people to behave in an appropriate manner when using facilities."

Yay! All fine then.

I hate to say it, but this change in legislation is going to go through and then an awful lot of women are going to have to suffer from very horrible assaults before anyone will even dare to look at the consequences of the new GRA on women. Unfortunately, the first few women who are attacked etc will be ignored by police, government and media for fear of reporting transphobic stories, and not wanting to admit have made a massive misstep

In case you haven't died of a rage stroke yet, here is transwoman Johanna's take on Wednesday night.

www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=466125993785221&id=100011634739373&hc_location=ufi

And yes, I knew Patrick Harvie was a despicable little weasel, but still galling.

I actually felt physically sick reading that response, if you can even call it that, from Patrick Harvie.

I despair.

I bet there probably were lawyers in the room who are well versed in Human Rights. It's like Joanna thinks radical feminists can't be intelligent with good jobs.

Seeing me too. Feeling sick I mean. Anyone looking at the FB links I sent, any decent human being, would see the affront to women’s rights that these mad TAs pose. But no.

their very existence is denied in the pages of major newspapers on a daily basis,

Can you provide any examples of this, Mr Harvie? No? Thought not

Disagreeing with them = denying their existence. Obviously. In the same way that disagreeing with them = wanting them to be exterminated. Perfectly logical!

Their very existence is being proclaimed everywhere at the moment!

Last week I took part in a short telephone survey about how I felt Police Scotland had dealt with a matter I'd phoned them about in November. A couple of questions about that, then asked if I'd like to take part in a further short survey.

Yeah, ok.

First or second question in that further survey was "are you transgender?"

Oh FFS, now I really am pissed off

Both at Patrick Harvey and Joanna, both who seem to be being wilfully obtuse.

Ross Greer hasn't replied to any tweets on that issue. I don't think it's appropriate in any way for a Member of the Scottish Parliament to refuse to answer a direct question simply because they don't share the political viewpoint of the person asking the question.

I just keeping thinking of that purple haired smirking prick TA at the beginning and imagining how these fuckers will delight in going into our spaces and rubbing our noses in it when this awful law goes through.

I hate hate hate this #nodebate unless you already agree with us. It's dangerous and it's undemocratic.

This is what I find most frustrating about how lefty men handle this. Because I can see how if someone didn't know much about the issue, they''d think "trans rights = LGB/minority/progressive rights, people who have a problem with any of that are probably right-wing bigots."

But you would think that when something comes up to contradict that worldview, you'd change it. Like when you hear from women who are feminists, lesbians, left-wing, all the above, and very obviously not reactionary bigots saying "no there's a very real issue here, please listen." You would THINK at this point that they'd go "hang on a minute, I might have got this wrong somewhere."

But no, they never, ever do. Because that would mean actually listening to women, and why bother doing that.

Patrick Harvie is a misogynist prick.

Johanna is someone who might be worth engaging with, though I say that through gritted teeth. Reading between the lines, I think Johanna might have been given a very hard time by J's 'siblings' and I imagine that's still going on. J strikes me as someone mired in the trans ideology but nevertheless interested in dialogue and disillusioned with transactivist's aggressive tactics.

I wasn't at this event though, I'm just basing that on the FB statement. Those of you who were there will have a much better perspective.

Does anybody know what J is going on about in this paragraph?

I got to call the entire room an insult to feminism without getting abuse, or any answer at all. That's because I revealed myself as a crim (Taking a poke at the male-privileged abuse from Hopkins and Morton cause I could) under a Community Payback Order in a vulnerable women's project (Their big nightmare...) and told them that the idea that I would be allowed to abuse anyone was an insult to the professional, highly-trained and compassionate feminists running the project, rather than to myself.

Johanna did say something about being attacked by two trans men I think? But that she had to do community service....she got a bit tearful and I didn’t really understand. I don’t know if she is worth engaging with, she was quite loud and interrupted often and at one point said if we didn’t listen she’d stand up and disrupt the meeting.