We need to talk about the GRA - Glasgow

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

www.eventbrite.com/e/we-need-to-talk-about-the-gra-glasgow-tickets-39786635899?utm-medium

I may actually try and go to this if I am feeling brave.

I think we need to be really, really careful because there is obviously a leak somewhere and it could be from this thread, it's as likely as from anywhere else.

Well I can appreciate that since I wasn't there you may not want to contact me about meeting (although I am definitely a woman and have the scars -literally- to prove it ). Knowing the dangers, however, I won't be offended if you feel I can't be verified. I am on FB though.

We can do a whatsapp group too if people prefer. PM me if you'd like to do that.

There was a news item this week about private conversations on whatsapp groups being infiltrated. Not sure how accurate the report is though as it was on my google feed.

I think we need to be really, really careful because there is obviously a leak somewhere and it could be from this thread

Yes. And MN is increasingly known as a place where this kind of discussion is allowed. If secret FB feminist groups get infiltrated all the time (and they do) then I’m sure people will be watching here.

I recognise a few people from Scotsnet and I think there is one poster here who has name changed but met me in person. But appreciate people have concerns about infiltration and I haven't posted much on feminism- tbh the reactions to the debate have scared me off, but clearly now is the time to speak up re the proposed legislation.

If we are going to be really paranoid then maybe Plectrum (?) was a TRA gathering names at the meeting so they can advance search and try to dox people.

This whole thing is fucking ridiculous.

Just to add I do think being careful is important but equally if people are kept out of being able to talk about this we won't ever be able to organise ourselves (as women and feminists) and I'm sure this is partly what they are banking on. I'm in a number of rad fem groups on Facebook and they have questions you have to answer and if (like me) you have an avatar without your picture you have to send one in with the date etc (so you can't just grab one off the net). In the interests of being careful but not leaving people out who could help would it be possible to do something like that for those of us who couldn't attend the talk. I for one would love to hear more about it and to work out how we can be proactive here. It's all so dangerously close in Scotland and I find men (in general) spectacularly uninterested.

I'm not in Glasgow itself (used to live there) but am a couple of trains away from there and from Edinburgh.

I’m not on FB but would be happy with a WhatsApp group.

My feeling is that for the moment, we should keep the group limited to the people who were actually there and can be vouched for by others. I can vouch for terryleather for example. If and when we meet we could discuss secure ways to introduce more people.

I am really paranoid about this because my job would be affected and I really love my job!

I’d also be interested to know about the Facebook groups that were infiltrated- what happened? What form did the infiltration take and what affect did it have?

Yes, we do need some way to organise obviously. I think many of us are going to get a lot more cautious when it comes to stuff like Facebook though because of the amount of real-life information you can see about someone on there. I don’t want activist groups like Wednesday’s lot to know where I work, live etc.

But making connections with other feminists is so important and we do need to be able to meet, talk, share experiences. That’s why there’s such a campaign to keep us scared and silent after all!

Well its working isn't it?

That's very interesting camomileteadrinker and yes, certainly the information came to me late in the day of where to meet initially so it would have been last minute organisation.

With regard to my comment about it working above - if that seemed confrontational it wasn't meant to. I just find it very frustrating that people can't meet without this fear. That said I do appreciate why you would prefer to stick to those attending. It is just frustrating that I was unable to attend because of work and now due to that I can't be involved in another way. Frustrating but understandable.

I hope your meeting is productive though.

Camomile can you link to the post?

Really interesting reading everybody's thoughts on the meeting

I do worry that these meetings are at risk of being a bit of an echo chamber with everybody (generally) being of similar opinions anyway, so all agreeing.

I find this whole subject so interesting and scary and I would very much welcome debate. I think Joanna once she had accepted that she could not dominate the debate, added an interesting perspective, so me anyway, as I have no idea what it is like to live as a trans person.

Clearly, a 3rd space is the answer and I truly don't understand why this whole debate must be so adversarial.

My favourite question of the night was from the young dark-haired women who asked how one of the male audience members protected himself from rape walking home on a dark night and how he dealt with the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy - she brilliantly put the shoe on the other foot IMO.

NB Yes, please, to an informal pub meet-up! I did not identify myself as a MNer and apart from Purrrfect have no idea who any of you are ('tits and fannies' comment was fab btw).

Seriously Camomile, What are you doing?

the 'back up back up' Trans rap is a constant playing in my head.

Not sure what you mean, about what I am doing?

Oh, thread has moved on.

I'm not on FB, WhatsApp would suite me better.

I agree, the scuffle was horrible and badly handles.
Letting security deal with it would have been so much more sensible.

I loved Kate's presentation and her passion, but I do think that many 'normal' people who are not engaged in this issue might find her approach very off-putting. Whether we like it or not, to get our point across and heard and taken seriously we need to behave in the most adult, mature and assertive-but-not-aggressive way.

Also, I was told Venice herself told a trans at Costa where the meeting was. Why do that?

To be fair she may not have realised - I told one of the TRAs where we were meeting too. She was standing with us at Costa and there was no indication that she was a TRA.

She looks like she is enjoying the trouble when I watch it back. There's a kind of delight there

This I agree with. There seems to be a certain element that likes the trouble, maybe because they think it is beneficial? I thought the first speakers reaction to the TRAs was really inappropriate too. But we are a broad church, and we are not all going to agree on every nuance of the argument. We do all agree that self-identity is a bad thing though and it is that that unites us.

camomile where on FB was that about Ruth Greening? People make a lot of claims...

I would have welcomed it if the speakers had concentrated more on the fact that a huge bit of legislation is to be change and in what ways and how that potentially affects ALL women.

It become too personal at times. And too much about toilets....

Camomile
Do you really think it's a good idea to publicly trash the speaker? Seriously, a bit of restraint is required. At least PM stuff

In relation to using FB. I don't use a lot of social media, I use FB mainly for professional purposes, it's a source of a lot of information not only about me, but about other people I know, and it would be a massive pain in the arse to have to change it all if someone did set out to cause trouble.

I've only used WhatsApp occasionally, but from what little I know then it is potentially a way of communicating that can be easily discarded, changed if there are problems.

I really don't want to have to feel this paranoid, but being harassed, doxxed and intimidated has been part of this for a long time now for those who speak out.

I would have welcomed it if the speakers had concentrated more on the fact that a huge bit of legislation is to be change and in what ways and how that potentially affects ALL women

YY I had hoped there would have been a bit more explicit analysis of the actual consultation questions etc. While I found a lot of what the speakers said really illuminating, they were kind of preaching to the converted. I got a bit of an impression that a lot of the audience really wanted to do something and were hoping for more guidance on how to start.