Trans guidelines for schools in Scotland

[LemonJello]

New guidelines:

www.lgbtyouth.org.uk/files/documents/Supporting_Transgender_Young_People_-_Digital_version.pdf

Sorry I’m not sure how to do a clicky link.

I haven’t read through it properly yet but will do now. Just posting as I’m sure others will be interested.

I believe most/all the women's colleges in the US now run on a self-ID policy, not sure what the schools policies are, or whether any single-sex schools in the UK have written/public policies as of yet, they may have a policy in practice.

This caught my eye...

And, no, we were not required to put it in our risk assessment because “he” was no more a risk than any other boys (nor at greater risk in spite of the oft repeated suicide risk that led to the changes).

I'm thinking aloud now. What if, what IF the FtM who'd opted into a male area on a residential trip was assaulted? At that age, SRS is too early so they'd have female sexual organs no matter how they'd present.

I'm in NO WAY suggesting that this is always going to happen, but it's always a risk. We cannot identify the determining factor why some males attack females which is why we separate by sex to minimise the risk.

Rapists attack women, no matter how they present. It's happening. How the fucking hell can we explain that one on a residential trip when the FtM has opted in to a male area?

Oh ffs. Can I please apologise in advance. I know what's in my head but a fucking brutal week of bonkers parents and lack of sleep is clouding my ability to string a sentence together.

Still can't sleep.
I was molested by a 10 year old when I was 9. Gym team sharing a coach with a footie team in the early 80's. I was at the back of the bus with the older crew, feeling cool and accepted with my team leotard and cheap tracksuit and sandwiches and pop, travelling to the next town for a day of sports. By the time we arrived, I'd been held down and assaulted and laughed at so an attack that can make part of your innocence die, can start from junior school age.

Primary school boys and some fucking girls held me down that day. We're not just talking teenagers - this can happen at younger ages. It's so vital that we separate by sex in all places that girls are vulnerable.

I've said too much. This whole issue is too frightening for words. Why won't law makers listen?

I've said too much. This whole issue is too frightening for words. Why won't law makers listen?

I hear you Moth.

And I agree. It’s almost beyond comprehension. The blindspot, sitting alongside the massive #metoo campaign, is staggering.

But, people are waking up.

Eton, for instance, have just decided they will allow boys who transition, into the school, but not natal girls.

So we are supposed to accept that you can change sex, which is detrimental to us. But not males? . They can be utterly transphobic when their rights are threatened, but we can’t?

I don’t believe for a second that they will not get backlash for that.

Always thought that when it started to really affect men, it might make people sit up.

I’m sorry for what happened to you. No child should have to go through that. I hear you.

WelshMoth

I checked out our local girls' and boys' schools equality policies. Girls' say they will treat both sex and gender as protected characteristics. They state they are a single sex school. But they also say they will operate admissions "by gender".

So does that mean they will admit MtF students, but not FtM?

Clear as mud.

(Boys' school doesn't seem to have anything about this in admissions, but at least they're not putting out confusing statements.)

So does that mean they will admit MtF students, but not FtM?

That’s exactly what it means.

It never fails to astonish me how people can suddenly categorise the human race based on a feeling in their head, rather than observable, identifiable sex characteristics.

And it’s only women who miss out. Again.

I wonder though if it is just sloppy drafting. Maybe that's wishful thinking but I might email to clarify. There seems to be so much woolly thinking around these issues I wouldn't be completely surprised if they hadn't thought it through to that extent.

This is the school I plan to send my DDs to.

A few of the private girls schools in London have published their policies on this - interesting reading. Won't quote directly here but think top 10 and it's on their websites for some of them.

I wonder though if it is just sloppy drafting

There is a massive issue with gender and sex being used both inconsistently and interchangeably.

There is a massive issue with gender and sex being used both inconsistently and interchangeably.

Which demonstrates that it’s not soppy writing, it’s incomprehension and ignorance.

@datun willful ignorance

There is an issue with boys/men generally being a bit more physical than girls/women whether it's fighting or other stuff.

Will FTM really want to go to boys schools? I would imagine they'd feel more comfortable at a mixed school or where they are already at a girls school there have been trans boys who have stayed.

Like prisons - would a FTM be put in a male prison? Would they want to be? What would the risk assessment say?

Because women tend to be more accommodating than men, and less violent, you tend to get anyone who won't feel at home in with the women. So the old "men" and "non men" thing. Schools is the same - MTF will want to be with girls, high chance they will have had a hideous time with boys and will feel safer. FTM will probably want girls or mixed for safety reasons also. Girls are also with girls.

That statement from eton is interesting and also entirely predictable. They are still looking at sex, if a child is MTF they still see them as male.

They are still looking at sex, if a child is MTF they still see them as male.

Bigots.

Same as the golf club (men only) that caitlyn jenner still happily attends and the other day about a MTF being allowed to continue membership at an exclusive men's club.

The institutions that churn out the men who will have power, and the ones that allow them to network once they have it, they know full well who they want as members and who they don't in all this. Gender is irrelevant - I'm afraid they appear to be genital fetishists.

In fact the entire of patriarchy is based on dick worship isn't it?

In fact the entire of patriarchy is based on dick worship isn't it?

only laughing cuz I don't want to cry...

Part of the guidance refers to binders causing shortness of breath, but that they can have positive effect on the mental health of girl wearing them. Do you think it's worth contacting chief medical officer in Scotland and asking if this has been researched, the evidence base for such advice and if she agrees with advice being given to girls? Yes I am clutching at straws.

"Part of the guidance refers to binders causing shortness of breath"

Yes that bit jumped out at me as well.

When I was a girl, it was common for girls to starve themselves and wear baggy clothes to try and hold development back, and stop the attention from men that suddenly starts. And it doesn't need to be a criminal thing - just the way men look at you changes and it's unsettling.

Binding breasts is a new solution to an old problem. In some countries they iron them. How is it that binding is new and progressive? It doesn't sound it to me. May cause shortness of breath I mean we look back with horror at corsets that did that.

Did you see the interview on This Morning with the teacher who might lose his job fur misgendering pupil?

here

I’ve read the whole thing and I’m really pleased by it. Realise in the minority here, but I think it’s a huge step in the right direction.

Oh that This Morning clip
That's a few times now (both sides of the Atlantic) that it's the voice of Christians opposing the ideology. Too easy to poo poo their thoughts as bigotry.
It would have been good to have had someone who could have shown Philip and Holly without Jesus being brought into it.
That Philip Schofield is so smug!

They seem to favour Christians who object, rather than feminists, on that programme.

I’m not sure Philip Schofield can get his head around Identity politics, to be honest.

Philip Schofield should have stayed in the broom cupboard with Gordon the Gopher. He doesn't seem to have a functioning mind.

It's not really Christians though, just the super conservative 'Christians' that seem to ignore The Church and The Bible on inclusivity. The Church of England has published guidance for faith schools on supporting LGBT+ children and young people, and identifying, challenging, and preventing homophobic, biphobic and transphobic bullying. So, thankfully, things are moving in the right direction across most areas of society.

Hi. New member! I'm not even sure if men are allowed - I might get chased off! (Benny Hill style if so, please!) :)

I saw this topic and figured this would be interesting to you all. A group called Transgender Trend have published their own Information Pack for Schools. Forgive me if this has been linked - it's rather a long thread.

www.transgendertrend.com/transgender-schools-guidance/

The Scottish "Trans Youth" guidance is frankly dangerous to my mind. This is a much more neutral document and actually discusses things like desistance (changing your mind about being trans) and the effect of trans policies on other pupils. Also, unlike the "Scottish Trans" one, its advice to schools dealing with concerned parents isn't to just tell them they're bigots who should suck it up. Schools really need advice on the trans movement and can't just ignore it. I really recommend sharing this with them if you can. It's much better researched and much less ideological.

It's sadly already being attacked by the usual suspects because it dares to say things like gender non-conformity isn't the same thing as being trans and that putting boys in a girls sporting event can negatively affect the girls' safety and enjoyment.

I'll leave it there. Probably enough words from a newbie. But I hope it's of interest and I believe strongly this should get wide attention in schools. I hope it's of interest.