Trans guidelines for schools in Scotland

[LemonJello]

New guidelines:

www.lgbtyouth.org.uk/files/documents/Supporting_Transgender_Young_People_-_Digital_version.pdf

Sorry I’m not sure how to do a clicky link.

I haven’t read through it properly yet but will do now. Just posting as I’m sure others will be interested.

I'm in Scotland and I'm not surprised Scotland has gone down this route. From named persons to banning light smacking, they think the state should control how we bring up our kids. I'm not overly concerned at primary school if my daughters shared a lavatory with a male, but once the age where some in their year group could hit puberty, I'm against it. These kids who feel another gender should be treated with respect and kindness, but that doesn't mean all regulations should be changed for them and in most cases, should accept that they may feel another gender, but they are not, yet that doesn't stop them engaging in activities that traditionaly the other gender likes without being bullied. Government should focus on stopping bullying and helping mental illness, not going along with it all pretending that is the best answer for the kids themselves.

knusper
There is so much to be alarmed about but I reckon, on balance I'd prioritise the systematic alienation of children (mainly teenagers) from their parents.
We have worked so hard in the last decades to prioritise 'working in partnership with parents' at every level, challenging agencies when they fail to work with them, trying not to see parents as the enemy and ensuring that removing children from parents is the last resort etc - and that's difficult enough. Then, at the very time when teenagers are going through puberty and their life mission is to reject their parent's values, lifestyles as well as experimenting with often risky and harmful behaviour, up pop these pressure groups with their own agenda and promote schools not sharing with parents critical information such as their child's wish to change their sex - the very people who are in a position to protect them.
Confidentiality is a difficult issue for schools and it always needs careful discussion and advice in relation to the law and the child's welfare - not 'don't tell' advice from those with a personal / political agenda.

You always challenge the intention of anyone (especially strangers online) who systematically persuades a child of certain beliefs and isolates them from family and friends. Why safeguarding agencies have failed to spot this most basic of issues I cannot imagine?

"Thick question but do private schools also have to follow this guidance? "

I don't think they do, but I noted in my son's school 'Stonewall School Champion' posters (made me chortle initially, thought that was something to do with the boy who'd run up the highest score, but apparently it means you've signed up to Stonewall's guidance on LGBT issues (I can only assume more to do with the GB than the T, but I'm not sure)).

So schools are being intensively lobbied both in the private and state sector.

I can only assume more to do with the GB than the T, but I'm not sure))

I would check that out. Stonewall is now all about the T.

Which is almost unbelievable, given the trans ideology erases homosexuality.

With the advent of same sex marriage, stonewall have to find a new cause to get behind or they’re all out of a job.

Going back to what mornongrunner said, is there still a breach of equality duty seeing as these guidelines were not developed by the Scottish government, only endorsed by them? They have been developed by lgbt youth scotland.

We may as well have changing rooms for those who like puppies and those who like kittens.

Yes!!!

Perhaps schools should put more effort into breaking down gender stereotypes and getting the message across that you can like whatever you want, aim for any career and can be happy with your choices.

Do schools get issued a guidance document on that?

I sometimes wonder what schools did before they had to busy themselves with all this. Oh yeah - they taught children and kept them safe. Stuck to the basics. Now this.

Argh, I’m in Scotland 🙁 This is insane - and nobody in the Scottish Govt will challenge it.

Me too. The Scottish government are totally on board with the whole trans agenda, and given that their whole raison d'etre at the moment appears to be showing how totally different they are to the Westminster government it's hardly surprising that they're pushing this so hard. "Look at us in Scotland, we're so tolerant, so right on, so accepting. So not like those nasty people down in Westminster. We're so DIFFERENT. We therefore need to be independent".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41927967

Their latest scheme is to allow 16 year olds to decide what gender they want to be and change their birth certificates accordingly. On a whim. When they feel like it.

It's all total bollocks.

Something I find very confusing about changing a birth certificate

If you were admitted to hospital, and they checked your NHS record and it says you are the wrong sex, then potentially if you have pain in the abdominal area, couldn't they be looking for the wrong thing if they have wrong information about your sex?

RosaTheOwl

Yes they could. There was a doctor on here earlier in the year who said it is now a criminal offence to refer someone and mention their trans-status, if they don’t want you to.

That’s a criminal offence not a civil offence.

Exactly Rosa - under this legislation, I could pitch up tomorrow at the register office and demand that my birth certificate is changed to say that I am a man.

Irrespective of the fact that I had a uterus, and carried and gave birth to three children. I would legally be a man, because I say I am. And if I gave my permission, my 14 year old boy could become a girl just as easily. And I would have the right to insist that he sleeps in the girl's accommodation on his school trip to France next year. Anyone who objected would be labelled transphobic, and would be told to withdraw their daughter from the trip.

World. Has. Gone. Mad.

oh Datun, I hadn't even thought of the poor doctor being accused of stuff!

I was more thinking of this because I've known a couple of people think they had female problems when it was lower bowel etc and if you were admitted in a lot of pain, they would, before scans, be looking for the wrong things and wasting a lot of precious medical time.

And Rosa, if as a doctor you dared to ask whether the patient was trans, you'd probably get into a lot of trouble for even daring to broach the subject and question why "Rosa" has a penis, or why "Rory" has a uterus and vagina.

How would this work for passports / border control / police identification etc - are people actually going to have legal documents saying they are a different sex to what they actually are?! How could anyone actually be identified?!

RosaTheOwl

This woman said she would have to say on the notes that there was a pain in the abdominal area, even though she felt full well it was uterine cancer.

She was worried that, in that case, it would not get fast tracked to the correct specialist.

I don’t imagine there are many people who would refuse to disclose their trans-status as it would be so counter-productive to their health.

But, I can well imagine people with a political point to score going out of their way to do it over quite health minor issues in order to tie up the system.

Purely for validation and to make a point.

How would this work for passports / border control / police identification etc - are people actually going to have legal documents saying they are a different sex to what they actually are?! How could anyone actually be identified?!

Details, details. Let's not sweat the small stuff like how this will actually work in practice when we have an opportunity to virtue signal and be all cool and progressive.

Anyone who lives in Scotland knows that the SNP have form for this. Making grand announcements without the plans and infrastructure to back it up. Our local Council is in a massive flap about the 30 hours childcare provision from 2020 - there are simply not enough places for all the children. No extra funding from Edinburgh. But Ms Sturgeon waves her magic wand and it shall be done.

As regards school trips and single-sex accommodation. Ask why people think it is needed? You either have the personal privacy and being more comfortable with people of the same body-type (okay, let's just say genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics). All of which exclude trans identifying males from the need to be housed with females. Why don't you have mixed accommodation? Well, all parents would be justifiably a bit concerned about the prospect of sexual experimentation and teenage pregnancies. Which again excludes a TIM from being housed with the females. Because if anyone claims that the TIM in question identifies as female hence cannot possibly have any sexual interest in the other girls, they they are being homophobic (he might identify as a lesbian as well). Yes, sexual experimentation might occur amongst the females but although that might lead to many things, it won't lead to any pregnancies. And given the propensity for TIMs to talk about their ladysticks, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.................

Segregate based on sex and biology for perfectly reasonable reasons based on bodily similarity etc, not on personality and whatever gender beliefs someone happens to hold. And tell them they're homophobic if they don't think a TIM is a pregnancy risk.....................

Datun "I don’t imagine there are many people who would refuse to disclose their trans-status as it would be so counter-productive to their health."

agree, but if they are unconscious/unable to speak and something needs investigating, the doctor will be looking at wrong notes initially and that seems a hell of a waste of time.

how on earth can changing a birth certificate make sense on any level?

to be clear, the "wasted time" I'm concerned about is to the NHS generally and yes, I agree, someone who wants their birth certificate changed will be quite happy to tie up the system with time consuming things that have no benefit to healthcare in general.