Women prefer working for male bosses

[DamsonInDistressss]

It seems a common argument that the lack of women in senior management positions is a result of the patriarchy. However, I was surprised to read in a recent thread on here that the majority of women prefer female bosses and are more likely to collaborate with a man than with another woman. I can't find that thread so am reposting here.

If true, this is surely a prime example of us women shooting ourselves in the foot and must be a serious contributor to male dominance.

lass we are all products of our environment. Bullying tends to have more to do with the culture of the organisation rather than what is between ones legs. I’d look for another job if I were you.
Women and men suffer under the patriarchy.

So even when being an outright bully a woman is still a victim.
Bullying tends to be borne of insecurity and lack of self esteem, a sense of not having any serious power, so I agree these women are victims of the patriarchy.

There is a huge difference between being assertive and publicly tearing a strip off a junior assistant in public in an open plan office.
It sounds as though you are speaking from a personal experience?

Don't think anyone is suggesting that it isn't their fault

SomeDyke is.

Do you think women in general are worse managers than men in general lass?

I have said several times I have been fortunate enough to deal with people who have been generally fine. Of the small number who weren't, more were female. Make of that what you want.

I have also been told by trainees there are certain women they did not want to work; not just that they didn't want to work in a certain department but rather it was a specfic female individual they didn't want to work for. That accords with the OP.

I find the excuses some posters are making for poor behaviour by women quite astonishing.

lass we are all products of our environment. Bullying tends to have more to do with the culture of the organisation rather than what is between ones legs. I’d look for another job if I were you
Women and men suffer under the patriarchy.
So even when being an outright bully a woman is still a victim
Bullying tends to be borne of insecurity and lack of self esteem, a sense of not having any serious power, so I agree these women are victims of the patriarchy

I'm appalled. Absolutely appalled at that. Justifying and excusing workplace bullying is obscene.

I am not talking about myself. I am an employer. I am talking about behaviours of other women at my level of seniority towards employees.

There is a huge difference between being assertive and publicly tearing a strip off a junior assistant in public in an open plan office
It sounds as though you are speaking from a personal experience?

Yes, I am. I am neither the manager or the employee but one of the people who has had to deal with the mess.

It is not making excuses, it is saying:
Is women’s behaviour really that poor, or do we judge women more harshly?
And
Consider the context in which women operate, that will have a bearing on their behaviour.
This article could help illuminate some of the themes.
fortune.com/2014/08/26/performance-review-gender-bias/

If you are an employer and bullying is occurring in your organisation then it is incumbent on you to change the culture. The people at the top set the tone.
I have not justified nor excused bullying, giving reasons for behaviour occurring is not condoning it. You do have quite the flair for melodrama.

Cos Patriarchy.

Sunshine - I can't take your comments seriously. You clearly didn't read or understand my posts.

The suggestion that a bullying female manager is just being judged more harshly or is a "victim of the patriarchy" is equa parts laughable and offensive.

How on earth is"Performance review gender bias" relevant in the situations I described?

As I said I've been in the situation of trying to sort out the mess caused by this sort of behaviour, not at the receiving end.

If you are an employer and bullying is occurring in your organisation then it is incumbent on you to change the culture. The people at the top set the tone

Oh yes, having completely got the wrong end of the stick turn it round like that. No, we don't have a bullying culture- we have a couple of senior women out of a very large workforce one of whom I know has just been hauled over the carpet for it.

"Flair for melodrama" -nice little put down there. You have been making ridiculous excuses for bullies.

The suggestion that a bullying female manager is just being judged more harshly or is a "victim of the patriarchy" is equa parts laughable and offensive. please explain why? I don’t think it is funny at all. And I can’t see who it offends.
I was simply giving some wider context regarding how women are viewed in the workplace. Here is some more: www.independent.co.uk/news/business/gender-stereotypes-pose-mental-health-threat-to-female-bosses-9883152.html
If you are unable to make the intellectual link between environment and behaviour then we probably can’t have a sensible discussion.
Did you say you’re a lawyer upthread?

hauled over the carpet for it.
Snort!
I didn’t misunderstand anything. I think you know that already though. 💩

Interesting discussion. I’ve worked in law firms for 30 years, and I’m an employment lawyer so I get to hear a lot about workplace behaviour. I have had one truly awful female boss and have observed truly terrible male bosses. I don’t think either sex wins when it comes to bullying or nastiness.

Funnily enough, I was thinking just today whether I prefer being instructed by men or women and I’d say that overwhelmingly - but not exclusively- the clients I prefer dealing with are male. Now I’m usually dealing with pretty senior people who have lost their jobs and I’m usually negotiating the severance. The men tend to be unemotional and results driven, women tend in my experience to be much more emotional and less focused when these situations arise. That’s an impressionistic view and not 100% accurate of course, but it is my experience.

If you are unable to make the intellectual link between environment and behaviour then we probably can’t have a sensible discussion
Did you say you’re a lawyer upthread?

Yes I am.

I find your comments such as Bullying tends to be borne of insecurity and lack of self esteem, a sense of not having any serious power, so I agree these women are victims of the patriarchylaughable in the desperate attempt to excuse behaviour by women which would rightly be condemned if done by a man.

And offensive to the employees who have had to put up with the behaviour of these "victims of the patriarchy".

I agree there is not a sensible discussion to be had.

This is particularly the case given your repeated failure to comprehend I am talking about very senior women- women at partner level. Women with real power.

Given the quite astonishing lack of comprehension you have displayed (I particularly loved the sympathetic tone where you had failed to read my posts properly to realise I am an employer) your talking about my being unable to make the intellectual link is really quite funny.

I didn’t misunderstand anything. I think you know that already though

You give every impression of someone who failed to understand what they were reading.

I am also a lawyer (funny how many people wiring in law firms clicked on this thread) and out of 5 former bosses, the two were terrible managers (relying on fear to get stuff done), two were exceptionally good managers, and one was a horrible nasty bully borderlining on harassment. Turns out the great managers were both male, the rest were all female. Including the bully.

Now I am not saying patriarchy does not play a role into that, but there is no valid excuse to treat other people with the respect and consideration you would yourself want. Excluding the downright nasty ones who are just shitty human beings, maybe women in general are receiving terrible advice when it comes to management? Women in management position is a fairly recent thing - maybe as a social group we lack the experience to create our own style and are just copy pasting with more or less success what we observe from/have been taught by men?

Also, the "red lining" every single draft for absolutely no reason at all - all three women I worked with did that.. and none of the men. Puzzling. Why is this a thing?! Mean teacher fantasy?

Aouch. Sorry about the typos.. sleep deprived

Hmmm I can see why bullying might be endemic in your organisation

Oh dear me. You really do have difficulties in reading don't you? How many times do I have to say I have been talking about a very small number of women over a 30 plus years career?

I find it hard to believe you are an ‘employer at a law office’ they tend to be called law firms, and the employers are the partners. Your (lack of) critical thinking, writing style and melodramatic tendencies do not read to me as someone operating at that level. So good story bro. Sleep tight

I didn't use the expression "employer at a law office". I am perfectly aware law firms operate as partnerships. As a partner, (or to be more accurate it is a "member" these days as most operate as LLPs) I am an employer. Do I need to explain what an LLP is?

"Goodnight bro"- I take it that is the tedious , say the poster is a man argument trotted out when everything else fails. It is as risible as your ridiculous arguments that female bullies are "victims of patriarchy".

I am also a lawyer (funny how many people in law firms clicked on this thread)

It is probably because it is the profession which will have the greatest number of women at senior levels.

I don't come across the same numbers of female partners in surveyors , valuers, accountancy or stockbroker's firms as in law firms.

Hmm. The subconcious thing makes a lot of sense to me. I do think that women are held to account in different ways to men, and that in a lot of cases an internalized mysoginy may well be at play in some of the pol responses.

Personally, I have only ever had 3 bosses in my working life. My favourite boss was male. He was firm, fair, friendly, had a slight anger issue at times but generally reasonable and just a general all round good guy. This guy is actually now my father in law Its not confirmation bias. Before I even met DH I said he was the best boss I ever worked for and meant it. Not that I really had that much else to go on mind. Before him I worked for a woman who was ok I guess. Not really exceptional in any area, but also no real negative traits besides (again) a slight anger issue sometimes, Probably a lot more of a 'professional' boss than FIL as he tended to be more a friend right from the interview stage where she always kept work and life very seperate. My first boss was male. Absolutely disgusting pervert who was just sleazy, had a huge anger issue, arrogant, just..I struggle finding much good in him at all. Ultimately I was sacked for refusing to suck him off.

I don't think I have a preference for sex of boss, given my limited experience. Though I will say, I would pass up the chance of another boss like FIL in an instant if it meant never having to have even a 0.1% chance of another guy like sleazy pervert. So maybe on that basis, I would lean more towards favouring females. As yes I understand females can be like this, but I also understand it would be exceptionally rare where real life tells me pervy guys in general are not as rare as I would like them to be.

Oh dear, Strawerry . I'd check your facts before spewing this one :

"So the ‘evidence’ is American and small samples at that!

Let’s remember that the majority of America voted for Trump... I rest my case"

OP I don't think you know anything about research and statistics

I was good friends with my female manager, however she has four teenage kids with a full time nanny and absolutely could not understand why anyone had childcare issues sometimes. She even said once after having a few wines that she preferred to fire men as they where more reliable.

If true, this is surely a prime example of us women shooting ourselves in the foot and must be a serious contributor to male dominance.
No it is a prime example of internalised, systemic misogyny.
Much like this thread.
Women aren’t succeeding when the odds are firmly stacked against them, lets blame the women.
Bullshit.