Women prefer working for male bosses

[DamsonInDistressss]

It seems a common argument that the lack of women in senior management positions is a result of the patriarchy. However, I was surprised to read in a recent thread on here that the majority of women prefer female bosses and are more likely to collaborate with a man than with another woman. I can't find that thread so am reposting here.

If true, this is surely a prime example of us women shooting ourselves in the foot and must be a serious contributor to male dominance.

Like Quentin, I've noticed there is a high proportion on this thread who are not regular posters. Wonder why.

Why do people post arrogant nonsense like this? Do you sit down checking every posters name, checking into their history? and why on earth would you do that, simply because you don’t agree with their experiences or assertions. Or have you reported posters to MN HQ and they told you most on here are nor regular posters?

Personally I don’t care who I work with, wether male or female, but I can only give my own personal experience which I think is what most here have done.

I am a regular. I have worked in law offices as an employee and latterly an employer since 1982. In that time the most problematic behaviour I seen towards staff has been by a small minority of senior female lawyers. Currently trying damage limitation on one case.

Dismiss that as irrelevant anecdotes because it doesn't suit your agenda if you like. It is still empiric evidence as far as I am concerned.

Oh and by far the worst example of sexual harassment was years of appalling behaviour by a female legal secretary towards male trainees. She routinely humiliated them with lewd, suggestive comments, hugely inappropriate joke sexualised leaving gifts , culminating in her finally being disciplined after she literally tore a trainee's shirt off at an office event.

Worst example of male ? The partner who used to take the pretty female trainees, but not the plain ones or the men, out to lunch , always at least 2 in a group, at the end of their 6 months session.

Have not rtft but I think two things happen here:
Women are still competing for scraps of power and respect, easier to bully other women than take on the patriarchy
Women being assertive are perceived more negatively than a man, due to ingrained misogyny plenty of research shows this. Even women who talk just 30% of the time are viewed as dominating the discussion.
We have a long way to go.

Women are still competing for scraps of power and respect, easier to bully other women than take on the patriarchy

Oh come off it. So even when being an outright bully a woman is still a victim.

Women being assertive are perceived more negatively than a man

There is a huge difference between being assertive and publicly tearing a strip off a junior assistant in public in an open plan office.

I've never had a female manager or boss in my "career" job. My male bosses have all been extremely different, so I don't know whether I can say I like working for a man, because some of them were dreadful and others we just didn't quite mesh.

From part time and temporary jobs when I was younger, the shit ones were fairly evenly split between male and female.

It's odd how we're supposed to accept your anecdotes Lass, but you never seem to accept anybody else's views or anecdotes even when backed up with a lot of evidence, isn't it? Do you reckon your experience is valid and everybody else's experience isn't?

Why do people post arrogant nonsense like this? Do you sit down checking every posters name, checking into their history? and why on earth would you do that, simply because you don’t agree with their experiences or assertions. Or have you reported posters to MN HQ and they told you most on here are nor regular posters?

Ooo-er. Sorry for rattling your cage. For the record: no, I have never checked a poster's history nor do I report posters to MN HQ.

I am a regular poster and, like Quentin, couldn't help noticing that there are a lot of non-regulars on here and wondered why. Sorry if making a simple observation is "arrogant".

I often check posters’ histories. Sometimes people don’t post in good faith. And it’s a means of knowing whether or not you’re wasting your time.

I've had shit male and female bosses. The worst ones that come to mind were mostly men, but not exclusively.

I do think that "bad behaviour" is perceived differently in men and women. Men who get in heated and unprofessional disputes with one another, then are speaking again the next day, are used as examples of male straightforwardness and ungrudginess. Women doing the same thing are fickle and two-faced.

The absolute worst boss situations I've been in have involved firms or departments run by a couple. I now refuse to work in such places.

ooh yes, what Zaphod said! Now I think about it, almost any notable (positive or negative) characteristic of senior female staff I have heard attributed to their femaleness by someone when discussed. Oops.

And btw I am a very sporadic MN poster but this came up on active threads this morning & I wanted to defend my boss good / bad bosses are an emotive subject!

It's odd how we're supposed to accept your anecdotes Lass, but you never seem to accept anybody else's views or anecdotes even when backed up with a lot of evidence, isn't it? Do you reckon your experience is valid and everybody else's experience isn't?

I have not dismissed anyone's anecdotes or said they are not valid. Please do not make things up

Actually I have dismissed NoLove's; assertions about how she knows all about this but given she is 17 year school pupil and has had no more than a couple of weeks work experience I think my experience of a law office might be more realistic than hers.

There plenty of posters here happy however to say the research is biased or wrong or trying to minimise bad behaviour by women.

There plenty of posters here happy however to say the research is biased or wrong or trying to minimise bad behaviour by women.

Well I’ll ask again. For the people who agree with the survey, why do you think that is?

Do you think people are biased towards women, or do you think they have a point?

Ravingroo, you said that a male boss would pass someone over for promotion if there was family-work balance issues whereas a female boss would give you strategies to cope.

To which I say “Bwark!”

Not in my experience. I’ve worked mostly in government and not for profits the last 20 years and have had almost solely female bosses. Most of them have not had kids and so have seemingly not grasped issues like kids getting sick. The ones who have had kids have regaled me with stories about how they missed their 8 year old’s birthday, or failed to show up for their 12 year old’s award ceremony (in that case the kid had no other family) because “Work comes first.”

Far from giving “strategies to cope” they gave me examples of how they’d short-changed their kids and then said “no” to me prioritizing mine.

I wonder if female bosses are more often difficult for women to work for (I’ve noticed my women bosses are much easier on the men) because to rise to the top requires a more aggressive kind of woman? Due to the patriarchy and all, men assume they are fit for supervisory positions whereas perhaps women with more empathy tend to not be aggressive (intentionally not saying assertive) enough to get promoted.

And I’m not marking them out as bad female bosses in a discriminatory fashion. I’ve had loads of female bosses - one begins to notice a strong trend after the umpteenth bully.

And of course some men do sexually harass female staff/colleagues but I’ve actually never had this happen (just stranger on the street harassment).

After working for both female and male bosses, I definitely prefer working for a male boss.

On the whole, and not all bosses are like this etc, I've found that women bosses tend to want me to impress them by doing good work while men bosses mostly want me to butter them up. I get on better with women bosses because I prefer the former dynamic.

I also find women easier to manage because they are far less likely to assume they know better than I do, except on the occasions when they are right

I often check posters’ histories. Sometimes people don’t post in good faith. And it’s a means of knowing whether or not you’re wasting your time.

But people name change regularly. Also how many posters have you checked to arrive at your conclusion? That sounds like a very laborious and pointless task because you can’t come to any valid conclusion. Just carry on with the thread if you want to and leave the Hunting down of dodgy posters to the site administrators.

I've had good bosses of both sexes.
I have found the dynamic different though. I find I can 'manage up' more with male bosses on average.

I am a regular poster and, like Quentin, couldn't help noticing that there are a lot of non-regulars on here and wondered why. Sorry if making a simple observation is "arrogant".

You do realise this is a public forum and that includes regulars, non regulars and regulars who have name changed?

Think about it.

A little context to that survey:

news.gallup.com/businessjournal/183026/female-bosses-engaging-male-bosses.aspx

Can't seem to find more recent survey results to see if the trend is continuing to narrow since the 2014 survey the OP referenced.

This: hbr.org/2017/10/a-study-used-sensors-to-show-that-men-and-women-are-treated-differently-at-work

and this:
www.wsj.com/articles/the-price-women-leaders-pay-for-assertivenessand-how-to-minimize-it-1464660240

may also help explain the survey results.

I've been in paid employment for almost 40 years and have had umpteen bosses. There have been some fantastic women and some shit men but on the whole I really don't like having a female boss.

I don't know what it is about the dynamic but I have been badly bullied by a number of female bosses over the years. Plus those I've had have either been micro managers or they ignore me.

Sadly my lovely male boss left last year and I now have a micro-manager. I find I am making loads of mistakes just because of the way she is with me. Each mistake reinforces her view that I'm useless and so it carries on. She told me off for not communicating, having completely ignored me for months. Then she'll go to the other extreme and send me emails every 5 minutes telling me to do what I'm already doing..

I prefer to work in an environment where there are no 'bosses'.

The boss = male
The bossy one = female

I've worked with both sexes and have found both equally unbecoming, though thankfully only 2 fulfilled this criteria. I may be lucky.

I knew lots of men who hated the 'boss' I liked because he seemed to favour women - he didn't.

Equally, the only female 'boss' I worked directly for was hated by everyone! She really was awful and desperately wanted to be at home with her children.

I prefer an equal workplace. It seems a lot more balanced and peaceful.

NAMALT etc.

But I've found that male bosses I've had are usually less good at their job, and more likely to take credit for other people's work than the women have been. Men seem to be good bullshitters (IME), but scratch the surface and there is no substance behind it. They are very confident in their opinions though, despite not knowing the subject matter well. I have found the opposite with women.

The best boss I've had is a woman. The worst boss I've had is a man.

I'd prefer to work for women, because I feel the relationship is more honest and based on merit than I have felt it was with male bosses.

With men I feel I have to do a bit more ego-massaging, and I have better things to do.

I've had male bosses and female bosses, some have been good and some crap. Both the best male boss and the best female boss were very similar in personalities TBH, they very much saw themselves as coordinators of a team rather than superior to a bunch of brainless idiots, like both the worst male and female bosses did.

It could be just my opinion of course as I have never been good with authority