Women prefer working for male bosses

[DamsonInDistressss]

It seems a common argument that the lack of women in senior management positions is a result of the patriarchy. However, I was surprised to read in a recent thread on here that the majority of women prefer female bosses and are more likely to collaborate with a man than with another woman. I can't find that thread so am reposting here.

If true, this is surely a prime example of us women shooting ourselves in the foot and must be a serious contributor to male dominance.

Yeah I've somehow always gotten on better with male bosses, not sure why as in RL I get on better with females in terms of being able to keep long term good relations. In work I always seem to fall out with female bosses. Maybe it's the kind of women who climb to management... can see how that comment could cause trouble but I'm in a management position so I'd be talking about myself being difficult to get along with which funnily enough is true.

A friend who's worked as a temp, and therefore had numerous bosses, says that the best and the worst were women. She says that the men she'd worked for generally thought she was a nuisance and tried to avoid her, but some of the women were downright sadistic, making her suffer for being an outsider on their territory. But then, there were some women who did the opposite, recognizing that she was new and unsure of her position, and trying to help her. I don't know what to say about that.

Why do you think that is lass? Do you think it’s fluke, or something else ?

I don't think my experience is a fluke. I think from what I've heard this is a fairly general experience. I don't know- maybe it's a misplaced assumption that the women need to be more macho than men to compete with men.

Your theory about the pressures of family/ childcare doesn't stand up. Of the 6 I am thinking of 4 had no children; one had a stay at home husband and a nanny and only one might have been juggling childcare and even there her husband was a civil servant who more than did his fair share.

On the whole I would say the vast majority of bosses, men and women, in law range from perfectly fine upwards. The most frequent complaints are likely to be things like laziness, disorganisation, hogging credit but not real nastiness. Bad bosses stand out and maybe bad female bosses stand out more.

There is also unfortunately a tendency for women to say they don't want woman bosses. I am not directly involved but I know of a situation in the last couple of months in my office where a female associate has threatened to leave a law firm if she is given a female line manager. In this case the line manager is a lovely person.

I've had four bosses who were female and they were all nasty, egoistic and bitchy. Uber competitive. One of them who was actually a sociopath I think.

One female boss who was great.

One male boss who was good.

If I was picking I'd choose a male boss.

Showing your agenda there op.

At one place I worked, my male boss left and was replaced by a woman. She did everything she could to undermine me in the eyes of the board and make my position untenable. She was far and away the worst boss I've ever had. A truly nasty piece of work.
Then, a couple of years later I met an old friend, and to our amazement after comparing notes, it turned out that my friend had also worked with the same person. She had been an intolerable boss there as well.
Give me a man to work for any day - at least they play straight and you know where you stand.

I remember coming across some theory about women who make it to the top wanting to kick the ladder away for other women - they got there the hard way so why should others have an easier road to the top. At the time I thought it was a total load of bullshit.
But then I got my first female boss. She loved me for years until I told her I was pregnant. Then she just punished me constantly. She made it fairly clear she had to choose between career or family and she seemed to think I had made (the apparently binary) choice of family over career. She took most of my work off me and made me do all the crap.
She used to question me about every antenatal appt and would ask me what it was for, how long I was there, if it was routine etc. My old male boss (at same level in same company) would never have dreamed of doing any of this crap.
Another person on our team announced their pregnancy while I was on mat leave and our boss reacted so badly she had to step down from the firm (and the profession as a whole actually).
I hope the next boss I have is female and sets my mind at ease that this boss was just a bitter old shite and in no way representative of other female bosses.
Regardless I still want lots and lots and lots more female bosses.

I’ve had four male bosses and eight female. One male boss was dreadful (workaholic, terrible at giving instructions, expected his staff to work for free when “necessary), and only one female boss was good. So yes, I’d far and away rather work for a man.

My female bosses/supervisors have (aside from one shining light) been terrible at building moral, power-mad, anger issues, lacking in empathy, bullying, etc. Just a series of nightmares. My bad male boss never made things personal in the way female bosses have.

I think it is that the sort of woman who wants to be in charge is very often not a nice person. I had to check a former workplaces website just today (to see what they call the position I used to do) and I see that 3 years since I left they have had a complete turnover of staff, some positions multiple times. There’s only 6 positions! But the boss is a tiny terror and socant retain people. Why the board puts up with it I do not know.

I have found some male bosses to be a bit patronising, but on the whole reasonable. A few letches. I have also had female bosses. I would love to say I have enjoyed working for women bosses but I cannot think of one of them that was not bitchy, bossy, competitive and unsupportive. I have had a couple of real bullies too who made my life a misery. One of them I still see, although I don't work with her anymore. She has a female direct report again and she is treating her badly too, but the previous one was male, and she was incredibly lenient with him even when he fucked up. So, letches aside, sadly I would prefer to work for a male boss based on life experience although one day I hope I do get to work for a female who is totally supportive of other women without the need to suppress them.

I’ve had good and horrible bosses - male and female. I think I like bosses who understand my strengths and weaknesses, and have really struggled with bosses who can’t recognjse those well. (So endless micromanaging on tasks I’m excellent at or not challenging me enough etc).

I’ve thrived under bosses who let me run with it on things I know while offering gentle support on things I’m not great at.

I don’t think it has much to do with the boss being male or female. I will say though in a very male dominated workplace women either bond together or turn on each other. Don’t see this dynamic now in our nearly 50:50 workplace but in previous 90:10 workplaces a woman used to being the sole lady often turned on other women colleagues.

Interesting comments, and after reading through I can well believe that the results of the study reflect reality. It’s a bit depressing in many ways, really. Part of the reason this strikes a chord with me is likely because of my personal situation. I value the idea of a society where women can fulfill their potential but, in all honesty, I’ve shied away from career progression as I don’t like the idea of working with most of the type of women who seem to embody that choice. I don’t know what the alternative is aside from some massive structural change which I can’t even envisage tbh.

Oswin

Showing your agenda there op.

And what is my supposed agenda? Trying to examine the facts/research rather than just screaming “patriaaaarchy”?

just screaming “patriaaaarchy”? oh ffs grow up.

Reading with interest. I’ve worked for more female bosses than men, infact just two men. Although all the female bosses were okay bar one really awful one. One male boss was okayish but the second male boss has been the best to date, He absolutely strived to make sure I knew everything he knew. Nothing was too much, he would go over and beyond to explain tricky technical concepts. He constantly asked about our career aspirations and gave advice or provided opportunities for us to gain experience in that respect.
He covered our backs if we got something wrong and then would ‘discuss’ it later just within our team, in private.
Non of the other bosses includ8ng the other male ever took such an interest of was that supportive.

The one awful female boss enjoyed making you feel a fool, and even better in front of the whole office. She made it plain clear she was not remotely interested in you other than to get your job done. There was no support and most of us went into work each day with high anxiety levels. Although that was many years ago, we still talk about it today.

I’m not sure wether that confirms anything from the research as it’s just a tiny sample, but that’s been my personal experience.

I've had a handful of both male and female bosses.

By far the worst was male, he was unfair, two-faced, backstabbing, a bully and completely incompetent. I had one good male manager and a few average.

Have also had a few mediocre women bosses, a couple of good ones and one great one.

I should imagine a company full of feminists, who understand what it’s like to navigate life as a woman, completely appreciate childcare problems, and working with men general, would be a bit of a dream.

This is what I have now Not company, but department. It's great.

So the ‘evidence’ is American and small samples at that!

Let’s remember that the majority of America voted for Trump... I rest my case

It is only my experience, but my sense is that male bosses don’t need their female staff to be mini-me’s in the way female bosses do.

My priority is my kids first, work second. Male bosses don’t seem unsettled by this but female bosses have regaled me with stories of how they missed their kids’ birthdays, let the nanny take their kids to A & E, missed recitals etc. It’s what hey did and if I don’t have those priorities, their priorities, then I’m a bar person.

Bad person, definitely not a bar person!

The worst bosses I have ever had were women. Utterly unreasonable, explosive anger, constant moving of goalposts, malicious bullying of anyone more junior than them.

On the other hand, the best bosses I've ever had were women too. Encouraging, appreciative, reasonable, clear in their expectations.

I have no preference at all as to whether I work for a man or a woman.

It does make me sad to read that women don't like working for other women because it's like we're our own worst enemies.

Lizzie - that’s very interesting. The boss I had when I was heavily pregnant would constantly regale us with stories of how she went back to work two weeks after giving birth, I must have heard this story about a million times.She’d go on to say how no one needs 6 month’s maternity leave,sort of implying how those who do this are just lazy and she on the other hand was driven and a go getter!

Strangely when a poster called Xenia on here used to post she used to argue the same twaddle and boast about how she went back to work after 3 days or something equally ridiculous, arguing about how all the breast feeding could be done by expressing at work.

I think there’s definitely some element of female bosses feeling the need to prove and justify themselves in a way men don’t. That is not women’s fault that as a result of yrs of subordination but it sometimes doesn’t make for a easy Luce when you’re at the receiving end of it.

Oswin

Showing your agenda there op

What agenda? Whether you like it or not the fact is women do say they don't want a female boss. In my experience it is said with reference to specific women not the idea of female bosses in general.

I have come across trainees who are not interested in a job offer from a specific department but if the reason for turning it down has been specific to a person rather than the department it has been a woman.

Could it be that how your boss is perceived by her peers has an impact on how easy she is to work for? My current boss (who is great) is the only woman at her level in my part of the business, and it's evident that some of the older men give her a harder time because of that. If she has to spend more time justifying her existence, so do her team. I can see that in some cases that might lead to women bosses being more demanding and more stressed. (Anecdata of course but so is most of the thread...)

@lizzieoak - in my experience female bosses are more honest than male bosses about the impact of always prioritizing home life vs work. A male boss would just silently bypass you for promotion, while the female boss will give you strategies to help.

Also, every poster on the thread so far has had issues with specific female managers and have now decided all female managers are bad. Would you have thought the same if your old boss was black / disabled? I think not!

In banking there are more female managers at the senior level (number tails off at CEO), and they are fantastic as a whole. Talented, nuturing of talent, and inclusive. But then so are the male managers. You get bad eggs everywhere but I find that some women are more likely to forgive bad behaviour if a man does it - my guess is all pf those women have posted this morning.

I'm a teacher and have aleays preferred male bosses. In my many years of experience I have found that female bosses can be bullies and get drawn into the politics of the place. The men have been far more straightforward. I'm only speaking from experience. I'd take a male boss any day.