Organising this fight.

[TitaniasCloset]

On another thread I have been wondering if we can't organise and fight this fight properly.

I'm hoping this thread can be a space for us to organise and think about what we do next and throw out ideas.

I think we need a central website that will have a name that's also appealing to non feminists.

As in the other thread , I'm happy to open my home as a point to chat and organise. I'm in south London.

I also think we should have a social media campaign and as many of us as possible make videos for our social media accounts, even if you are crap at this as I am, I can't edit or anything. So long as you feel able.

We need to put together ten points at least for this. The first five of which need to be snappy and appeal to most women if people want to make shorter videos.

There is no point preaching to the choir, we need to have this simplified and slick enough to appeal to women like my sister who is working class as I am and just ignores every bloody thing I send her on this topic.

On the other hand we need to have the intellectual women ready to go with mass media and write their blogs etc.

Also I think the Richie Allen show would be a good place to send someone on, we have to choose who. I would do it but I'm shit at remembering facts and figures really. I'm no intellectual I'm afraid.

I'm a bit pissed tonight do this might not be totally coherent but you know what I'm saying here.

We have to fight back.

www.facebook.com/womansplaceuk/
sages.org.uk/

Briech I like the idea of the stickers as a way to get the basic info out there. Much like the rape crisis ones you see all over in women's toilets.

I agree with AdalindSchade's posts. Splinter groups are ineffective. We need to work together, with the clear aim of protecting the legal definition of biological sex.

Witch
I think it would engage people who don't know about it or aren't overly internet savvy.
My MIL is 70, she uses the internet but wouldn't be in places that would expose her to this debate. She would certainly search and get involved if she came across a sticker in the supermarket loos.

I think that's what the OP is saying though? The campaigns that already exist are too diffuse and are largely social media based and don't have a "hub".

I'm not sure someone can just make themselves a 'hub' of a campaign when there is a lot of organising already happening especially when the person is new to the 'scene' and therefore unknown. Better to make contact with people already organising and see what is going on.

I agree with PPs that it's best to get behind existing groups. Possibly even if we don't 100 percent agree with their tone or approach.

WRT gender self ID coming into law there is no time to organise anything new.

Yes I think it obviously needs to centre around the original campaigns (and the extraordinarily hard work they have put in).
However to reach more people and for voices not to be dismissed as fringe bigots (which is what is happening on Twitter) and "Terfs" there needs to be cohesion, a solid, combined voice.
Many people who aren't reading about this don't know what transpeople are, if transwomen is a person changing from man to woman or vice versa. They have no idea what MtT, FtM, lesbian erasure etc. means. Yes they can be educated with the great deal of information wonderful women have researched, however we all know most people can't be arsed - they want it in easy to digest, bitesized chunks. It would be damaging to dismiss these people from joining a cause and fighting back.

Sorry, part of my business is marketing and advertising - so I suppose I just see what it could be.

I am personally not critical of the hard work the already existing campaigns put in btw.

Great thread so far. I have been sitting at home seething for a few months now about the gradual degradation of women’s basic human rights. Twin (girl!) toddlers have kept my hands full but as someone on here said, there’s no point waiting for common sense to kick in with the politicians as it just doesn’t seem to be happening. Am going to get on to those groups mentioned but if anything comes out of this conversation then I am happy to help!

Sorry, I wasn't clear above. I'm completely fine with (and grateful for the work of) existing groups. But I can see that anything overtly feminist might feel a bit scary to some people.

I LOVE the sticker idea! It's simple, but would be really effective in getting the message out to all those women who are totally unaware of the proposals.

We could have days when we target particular towns and have a mass stickering of as many ladies' loos and changing rooms that we can manage. It would also be easy for us to always keep a few stickers in our bags, so we can routinely sticker any loo, changing room or other women-only space that we go into in our day to day lives.

I'm in, sticker idea bloody brilliant. Maybe even just "would you like to share this space with a man? You soon will" and include the link to sage factsheet?

Interestingly, re the sticker idea, I was in some public loos yesterday and on the back of the door there was a block of what was essentially post it notes with the local rape crisis details on. So you could just peel off the top sheet and take it with you rather than need to write a phone number down. I've never seen this before (I don't get out much!) and I thought it was a great idea. I don't know how much more expensive this might be as opposed to simply stickers.

I agree that a more mainstream way to reach people needs to be found. I find that as a topic, it’s so hard to explain as the trans campaign linking trans issues to gay issues has been so effective.
I think also it’s hard as trans ideology is damaging in such a multitude of varying ways, it’s not an easy one liner to explain.

That’s brilliant that you work in marketing BriechonCheese I think what is really needed as OP suggested is a marketing strategy to simplify the message and remove any aspect that could be misconstrued by an average non feminist person as prejudiced. I’ve no background in marketing so don’t have a clue how to do it but perhaps there are other gender critical women (or men) who could get involved.

The message needs to be positive and upbeat. Ideally it would need to be something as simple and strong as the gay marriage slogan for the Irish referendum ‘Love is love’

I appreciate that what needs to be fought is actually very dark and my ideas may be unrealistic. But feel that at the moment, most people don’t see any real threat and think it’s just a small niche that won’t effect them and switch off when they hear the complicated terms with academic sounding language.

Also, agree with others who have said that it’s best to get involved with the existing groups so we consolidate our impact.

Also, stickers are a fabulous idea. I would happily put them up in my local area.

Does anyone have suggestions for good sticker slogans?
What would make an impact on someone?

I can't draw but a sort of tube sign along the lines of

FEMALE SPACE in the middle
And "Would you like to share this and other female spaces with males?" around the top

And "You may soon be forced to do so! The law is changing" around the bottom.

The link and twitter details in the relief.

I think that it's important to reassure people that critical thinking isn't bigoted. I like the 'pro woman not anti trans' slogan of Fair Play for Women. It's true. We support the dignity and rights of trans people but can't allow them to encroach on women's rights.

Yes it was drunken ranting sorry about that, but as has been explained by pp my original point is that there are already hundreds of small split off groups, so we need to centralise somehow, perhaps by using two or three of the groups already set up and keeping links with any other groups.

The obviously feminist groups and those that are hard to navigate or very intellectual are off putting to the non feminists and men who otherwise would be listening. They are amazing resources and took a lot of hard work yes, and as a feminist I read them and they helped me reach peak trans, but so many people who need to understand what's happening will be put off by them.

When I speak to my friends and one ex about this in real life I simplify the issue and they are absolutely shocked and very supportive once they realise I'm telling the truth here. Those YouTube videos 'women decide for yourselves ' are very useful because they are based on facts and anyone can watch them and understand.

So I'm sorry if I was drunk and ranty but this is my whole point, none of us are working together except on twitter. I'm happy to support any groups, but I hate Facebook so won't go on there much.

I’m curious about this topic and concur it’s a worrying eventuality where a man can use the guise of ‘identifying as a women’ to enter a women-only space unchallenged. But what of the reverse? If a female with bad intentions wanted to enter a boys’ changing room, how could teenage boys readily identify her as a trans woman as opposed to a biological woman feigning the former?

Is the solution trans-only bathrooms? I can’t see an easy solution (although admittedly haven’t given much thought to it before now).

Yeah ok
But I'm part of this community (of women connecting online and organising) and I can tell you it's impossible to bring everything together into one central hub. Especially if you are new to the community. Someone tried it recently and it went very badly and women are very very wary of being exposed to harassment, doxxing and even violence.
So my advice is the same - don't try to coordinate groups of women who have been working for a long time behind the scenes to push change forward, try to find a community and join them. You won't get women or groups rallying to you if nobody knows who you are or what your credentials are.

Wow. You have completely misunderstood me. Totally off the mark. I'm not putting myself forward as a leader, I would be crap at it. On another post on Mumsnet, the Theresa May one I actually say what we need are a few leaders we can get behind. There are some women taking this role on twitter at least.

I'm here asking a question really, what can we do know to fight this?

You have taken me completely the wrong way and seem to have your nose out of joint that I'm posting at all when I'm new to this.

If it can't work or has been tried then explain that to me.

But I feel impassioned about this cause and I don't think I was out of line for throwing posts out there and sounding out ideas. A few pp have responded with links to sites that are already doing what I had suggested, so that's fucking great, wonderful, I can now post those links myself.

I don't understand your attitude though.

The sages fact sheet is brilliant btw, a couple people have posted that. That's exactly the sort of thing I mean, simple and clear.

Loving the sticker idea.
I'm terrified about what this mean's for women. I've already written to my MP and explained my reasons.
I for one don't want to share my safe spaces with people with penises! Why should I!