The UK is officially an intolerant hellhole for transwomen

[pisacake]

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/12/british-transgender-woman-given-residency-in-safer-new-zealand

"The tribunal deemed it would be “unduly harsh” for the woman to be forced to return to the UK, where she suffered years of “persecution” due to her gender identity disorder. "

In pleading for the woman to be allowed to remain in New Zealand, her lawyer, Kar-yen Partington, presented 20 articles to the tribunal detailing transphobic hate crimes in the UK.

Recent data from the UK shows transphobic hate crimes against LGBTQ people have soared by nearly 80% in the last four years, with more than one in five LGBT people being the victim of a hate crime in last 12 months.

Just seriously curious if (actual) women have ever been granted asylum for being subject to harassment, which in some countries is very extreme. Or is this more trans privilege?

if a teen wants to ID as asexual for a while, then change their mind, nobody is gonna care.

This is when my scepticism goes into overload. Loads, simply loads of people do not feel a rush of sexuality until they are well into their 20s or later. Or meet someone who happens to press the right configurations of buttons, whether physical, mental or emotional.

It's a completely normal part of sexual maturity.

Saying that, being told your identity is invalid
If you are referring to posters here- no one has. Does any one in real life do that? And not caring/ being bored is a perfectly valid reaction- it is not invalidating your identity.

that you are self-absorbed I'm self- absorbed. I don't consider I'm being oppressed if it is occasionally pointed out to me.

I've just googled demisexual. So you don't want to have sex with someone unless you're emotionally involved with them? I might be horribly old-fashioned here, but isn't that most girls?

sleighbell that's obviously not true it doesn't matter how confident or self-assured you are, being told over and over and over again that you're wrong/broken/invalid/stupid is going to have an effect on your mental health, especially if you're a teenager who is still figuring stuff out.

Datun true, but asexual does not equal celibate (either by choice or not). If you experience sexual attraction, you're not asexual. If you experience sexual attraction but don't want to have sex, or you're not sexually attracted to your partner but are to other people, you're not asexual. Spinsters may be asexual, but they also may not be, asexuality is not a requisite for spinsterhood.

It is interesting though, that young people have embraced labels, I find them liberating but I know a lot of older people feel the exact opposite.

that you are self-absorbed I'm self- absorbed. I don't consider I'm being oppressed if it is occasionally pointed out to me.

That made me laugh out loud.

It's true, though. It's very difficult to get over the current generation's obsession with not being criticised.

I'm 26, and I'm asexual, I have friends who are also in their 20s who are ace and aro...I promise none of us are 'straight'

I think that is very telling. "None of us are n "straight". Which , I'm assuming means not only are none of us boring heterosexual "straights" but boring gay men and lesbians "straights".

No-one is told that they are broken, invalid etc for being demisexual because it is a TOTALLY NORMAL THING. Christ alive.

I find them liberating but I know a lot of older people feel the exact opposite.

I can sort of understand this. But it's only, in my opinion, because the demand that those labels are respected. I agree, there is no reason why they shouldn't be, but because it appears so conditional on that, I worry about the fragility involved when they are not respected.

Datun no, it has nothing to do with wanting to have sex, it's about the feeling of being sexually attracted to someone.

You can experience sexual attraction without wanting to actually have sex, and you can want to have sex without being sexually attracted to that person. The amount you desire sex is your libido, rather than your attraction.

Demisexual people have no sexual attraction to people unless they are emotionally connected to them, it can be the same person, and one day they are sexually attracted.

Spinsters may be asexual, but they also may not be, asexuality is not a requisite for spinsterhood

Oh the joy. You can write all this stuff about oppressed these groups are but still use the word "spinster".

I honestly don't get your "demisexual" can't also be "heterosexual" comment. As I understood it, "demisexual" and "greysexual" applies to where you are on the spectrum of "shag anyone with a pulse" to "very very picky" (where for me being picky is actually a positive thing - it shows you have good boundaries in place). Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual applies to the biological sex you are attracted to (and yes, it is biological sex, because gender is an oppressive social construct, and a necessary but not sufficient part of sexual attraction towards someone is them having the right genitals, and there is no such thing as a lady penis, however much the likes of Riley Dennis want to prop up rape culture by guilt-tripping lesbians into having sex with them). "Asexual" strikes me as different again - it's about libido (one can be "demisexual" and have a high libido with one's chosen partner; conversely I've met people with multiple partners who are doing it not out of desire but because some event has left them so traumatised that they can't see sex as anything other than sexual currency to make people like them.)

So it's perfectly possible to be demisexual (want some sort of emotional connection to someone's personality) before wanting to shag them, and also want them to have a particular type of genitals, making you hetero/homsexual, and have a very high libido once you've met that person.

Whenever these conversations come up on here, I'm reminded of a great spoof someone wrote on here about "coming out to your mum as demisexual"... "Yes mum, I know you were looking forward to supporting me through all those rights of passage like getting a bumper pack of condoms, first visit to the STD clinic, and I know how gregarious you are, and you were looking forward to making small talk to a different young man every Saturday and Sunday morning when I brought him downstairs in the morning. But, I'm afraid it's not going to be like that. You see (lip wobble) I'll be taking it slowly, getting to know one bloke, then bringing him home - just that one person, not a whole string of them - every weekend..."

Though I do see in a sense why the current generation has had to invent these labels for what's actual a fairly standard and traditional attitude towards sex. Like young women identifying as trans in vast numbers, it's actually a reaction to our pornified society which now defines "normal" sex as multiple partners, multiple orifices (often at the same time), constantly up to shag any man with a pulse who presents himself. Porn culture has such a stranglehold (sadly often quite literally) on dating behaviour and wider culture that one has to have an "excuse" - "I'm demisexual", "I'm a transman" - to gain "permission" to opt out of pornified behaviour.

And of course the tragic thing is it doesn't work - cf the thread running at the moment about the transman raped by a man who wasn't buying into the myth that this was really a man rather than just another female body to be raped. Not only does it not work, but it strips us of the language to talk about men and women, male and female socialisation, the culturally conditioned power imbalance between the sexes, and the actual root of the problem, which is male violence. We're left just putting sticking plasters over the symptoms.

They are desperate for migration? Any more info?

doesn't matter how confident or self-assured you are, being told over and over and over again that you're wrong/broken/invalid/stupid is going to have an effect on your mental health,

This is exactly what I mean, loops. If you have a personality trait that you use as an identity, tell people that you have it, and demand that they behave accordingly, you are absolutely going to get people who will react against that.

Expecting people to find a fairly unremarkable aspect of one's personality as important as they do, is going to produce a very natural reaction of people saying why the fuck should I, it's not important to me and if you push it, they will absolutely try and dismantle that, as justification for finding it unimportant.

lass I meant that none of us are straight because we're all ace...gay people aren't straight either, not sure what you mean by that? I also don't think straight people are boring lol although some are, cause some people are boring.

Lass I was literally responding to a previous comment describing spinsters and bachelors

Demisexual people have no sexual attraction to people unless they are emotionally connected to them, it can be the same person, and one day they are sexually attracted.

Again, that's completely normal. It's happened to me! I was very good friends with a chap, who I wouldn't consider, in a million years, having a sexual relationship with. Ended up having great sex with him and dating for over two years.

A friend of mine had a male best friend for years. Everyone thought they should date, she was adamant that that would never be on the cards. They're now married with two children. (And still best friends).

BTW, anyone else getting this vibe from loops posts of yet another bright young thing convinced that theirs is the first generation to discover sex, and therefore they are in a position to explain slowly and carefully to the dotty old bats and "spinsters" that there can be more to sex than lying back in the missionary position and thinking of England (or Scotland, in mine and Lass's case) ?

loops, we've all been there, done that, got a whole fucking chest of drawers full of the t-shirts. The mismatch when one person went into a sexual encounter just wanting a shag and the other wanted a relationship and now feels used? The mismatched libidos in long term relationships? The person who didn't feel any need to form relationships and pottered through life quite happily with their hobbies and a pet gerbil? The players who only ever shagged around and didn't seem capable of forming meaningful relationships? Yup, it all happened, we just didn't feel the need to "label" all these quite normal forms of human behaviour that have been going on since time immemorial (read Catullus' poems if you don't believe me).

Loop -I really don't care how many every increasing groups you manage to define your personality into.

I do however find it hilariously ironic that you are getting heated on here about the inability of some of us to take it seriously but can glibly refer to "spinsters"

prickly again, it has nothing to do with libido. Asexual people can have a high libido and desire sex a bit, a lot, or not at all. It's about the actual experience of sexual attraction. There is no sexual attraction for ace people, although they may have romantic attraction. Demi people have no sexual attraction until they have an emotional connection, although they may have a romantic attraction, then one day they suddenly experience sexual attraction (usually to a SO, but not always).

Yes it was me who raised spinsters and bachelors. Only because they were yet another label to assign to someone, back in the day.

BTW, anyone else getting this vibe from loops posts of yet another bright young thing convinced that theirs is the first generation to discover sex,

Yes.

you can want to have sex without being sexually attracted to that person.
What? why on earth would you want to have sex with someone you aren't sexually attracted to? Surely that's the worst sex ever?

Demisexual just sounds normal to me.

Flips sake. I'm baffled. Also I think it's offensive to people who are homosexual and aware of the history of people being beaten/murdered/imprisoned/denied jobs to suggest that someone not understanding you is oppression.

Honestly, loops, I think we understand what you're trying to say. It's jut that we don't buy into it as an explanatory framework for the world. This stamp-collecting urge to take the normal spectrum of human behaviours and personalities and label it all and pathologise it really strikes me as unhealthy.

And if you're really trying to tell me asexual people can have a high libido and want lots of sex, well, I'm afraid I'm having a bit of an Inigo Montoya moment here: "You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."

Only because they were yet another label to assign to someone, back in the day

The operative part being back in the day. Which seems to have escaped Loop's attention.

loops

prickly has articulated it very well. Also, many, many women do not have what you call a 'sexual attraction'.

They can have good sex, if they have the right buttons pushed. Lots and lots of women do not look at a man and mentally undress them and get hot, thinking about sex.