Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

[BeyondNoone]

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

InigoTaran

There is a real reluctance to discuss people who detransition, in the community. Because of course, it gives the lie to the fact that people 'just always know'.

Consequently, detransitioners are vilified. A programme in Australia recently pulled a section all about detransition, after promising to air it all week. It was right before a governmental bill about same-sex marriage, so perhaps they thought the trans community would react badly. Probably an accurate prediction.

It's yet more control. And it's dangerous. I am completely convicted when it comes to transactivation. But my anger dissipates when I encounter parents of trans children.

Who amongst ourselves could not put ourselves in their position and understand how heartbreakingly difficult it would be.

For those people, detransitioning stories would be invaluable. They are mired in the middle of an ideology where there is no escape route. And when you read about detransition, you can see the end of that journey, and look back down the line. You can recognise whether or not your own child is dealing with the same things that a person who has come out the other side, had to deal with.

You can look for pitfalls and warning signs, but also see where the doubts crept in, and why. And encourage any critical thinking.

It's a horribly tense tightrope, and anything that can help, should be encouraged. Not villified and buried.

I'm not suggesting that transitioning is either easy, or always happens. Clearly not. But it does happen. And the stories are remarkably similar. And yes, gender stereotypes feature.

(There is more about Bath spa's decision towards the beginning of this thread and reaction to it).

At the bottom of the letters page in the guardian, under the letter about the speakers corner attack, there is a piece about freedom of speech. Which mentions speakers corner - looks to me like peak trans is hitting more journalists by the day .www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/24/social-media-law-free-speech

witch and smarties

Thank you!

I wish transactivists would just fuck off, to be honest.

Then everyone would settle down. Doctors could start the research. Children would be treated, not indoctrinated.

This isn't about respect and living your 'authentic self'. This is about a disorder.

The government proposing to eliminate gender dysphoria as a criteria for being trans and making self identification possible are caving into an ideology. (And opening the floodgates to every predator in the country).

Perhaps they are coming from a good place. Gender dysphoria is, definitely, alleviated by presenting as the opposite sex. But, writing it into legislation so that it becomes less about an illness and more about an imposed belief, is going the wrong way.

Apart from anything else, transitioning, often does not make anyone any happier. Suicide rates don't change, in fact I believe they spike 10 years after surgery.

The theory is that although transition and surgery can alleviate gender dysphoria symptoms, they don't actually make the person any happier overall. Presumably about 10 years afterwards, the dream has become tainted, because they are still of the sex they were born. The fantasy isn't realised.

Add to that the fact that 87% of trans-people have comorbid health issues, one can see how pinning your hopes on persuading everybody that you are actually the opposite sex, may not work.

Meanwhile transactivists are determined to stop people even talking about it.

I must have a contrary streak. Because as soon as someone tells me I can't talk about something, I develop an instant, burning desire to talk about nothing but!

The researcher in Janice's article on Saturday was interviewed on Radio 4's Today programme after the sport & headlines @ c8.35am. It was a pretty good interview. They had a contribution from a trans advocate at the start to say why they thought this kind of research was problematic and could be misused. Then the researcher was interviewed at length and allowed to make his arguments, which he did with eminent reasonableness and clarity.

Well done Caspian!

And well done for actually getting on to R4 today - I thought they were sitting with their fingers in their ears unless it was to unquestioningly (odd for the Today programme ) listen to a piece put out about socially transing a small child. Funny they put this out earlier when more people were about though.

Sorry, that should have been 7.35am - I was in the shower, so not 8.35!

Ah super!! I will go and find it then.

Sorry about the diatribe - that was my peak trans moment. I wake up to classic FM these days.

The Sun is ON IT!

The first newspaper to acknowledge that many transwomen still have their penises and want to get into female prisons.

They mention Caspian, speakers corner, the lot.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/4537777/transgender-law-proposals-assault-hyde-park-opinion/

It's certainly more comprehensive than anything else by a long way. Surprising from the Sun... fair play though, any press exposing this are being pretty bold

The tide is starting to turn This kind of thing has been unsayable until now, it is great to see it starting to break out!

That is well explained, fair and not out to make fun of either side.

The Sun. What on earth is the world coming to when you turn to The Sun for balanced explaining of the facts?

I'm going to have to lie down.

Bloody hell, never thought I'd say well done to The Sun! A much clearer article than the garbled mess that the Mail churned out, too.

That Sun article is amazing. Miles better than the shambles of the Mirror article. Well researched and says it all very clearly.

Gingernaut same - you had to peel me up off the floor.

What a great article. I've commented but now showing as yet.

Sun article really good. The Sun and the Times are really good on this. Who'd have thought ??

That is a powerful piece in The Sun. They step around much of the complexity and lead with the story being one side wanting to discuss important changes in the law and an opposing side using violence to shut down the discussion.

Only after that does it do a round-up including useful facts for those who might be interested: ATH both being violent and backing the changes to the law, many transwomen keeping their penises, shutdown of academic research, etc.

I'm not optimistic that the clarity will continue in the comments.

The Times though should complain that someone has nicked their homework.

I hate to say it, but there is something very clever about tabloid journalism when they get their teeth into something.

Does anyone know anything about the new group that is supposed to be announced in Brighton whilst the Labour conference is on? I am on tenter hooks. Go women Go!!! You rock

Terrylene

Here is a thread about it. At the bottom there is a link to a public site for information.

They've published the date, but not the venue. They're keeping it secret as long as possible so the venue aren't threatened and have to withdraw.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3042056-debate-not-hate-we-need-to-talk-about-gender

The first thing that occurred to me Terrylene was "now this is what I call communication".

Really pleased with the article in the Sun - It covers so much in a really straight-forward way. I was beginning to despair after the garbled mess all the tabloids managed to make of the Speakers' Corner violence.

The Sun article is excellent. I'm astonished. This is the kind of article the Guardian should be publishing, but isn't (though they did at least publish a letter today about the violence against Maria MacLachlan).

The writer, Miles Gosslett, is a freelance journalist who has had some pretty impressive scoops. A good person to have on our side.

Thanks Datun - I have a couple of days to wait!

Get commenting giving a balanced view of what women think about it. The article is excellent.

Just tried to post a comment, but it hasn't shown up.